BIRD WILLIAMS: You're listening to Bird Means Business Episode 14.

Well hello there. We have one of our favorite people back on the podcast. Terry Williams is here in the studio. 

TERRY WILLIAMS: Yo!

BIRD: And we are going to be talking about how to vibe with your tribe. It's gonna be good. Excited?

TERRY: Yeah.

BIRD: So today we're going to be exploring client relationships and the industry disruptive gift of being a people person.

TERRY: Yep, if people like you, you can rise to the top of anything that you walk into.

BIRD: Yeah, so it's gonna be great. I know a lot of you out there are launching or growing your business and you are wanting to figure out that piece. Like how do I really connect with my audience? Who's my ideal client and how do I really engage with them in a way that's meaningful?

TERRY: Or you don't. You haven't asked that question at all. You're so focused on the Excel spreadsheet and your plans and all the to-do's and the logistical pieces of putting together a business, that you've maybe not focused so much on the importance of really connecting with your audience. Or as I like to call it, vibing with your tribe. And maybe today is a really good one to take notes on because it matters.

BIRD: Yay-yah. It is so, so crucial. So for those of you who don't know, Terry and I are married, and we own a gym here in Houston Texas called  The League. We launched it back in December 2013. So it's been around for about seven years, and it's like the best. We are so honored to kind of steward it and a lot of our experience kind of comes from that first business we launched together years ago. 

Okay, so my first question is, what is the best way to connect with your audience?

TERRY: I think the best way to connect with anybody is to just really acknowledge their presence and how important they are to you. I think you do a great job with that here on the show by doing the listener shout-out. It's a really good way of just engaging directly with the person, right there when they're in their car listening to the podcast and just saying, "Hey, you matter. You're awesome." You said something nice about me, I'm gonna throw it right back your way. And I want to shout out one of your listeners who I wasn't aware was one of your listeners, who's a friend of mine, Mr. Austin Burnett.

BIRD: Hey!

TERRY: I joke about the guy all the time. You know there's that old saying you don't have to be a rocket scientist? This guy is literally a freakin rocket scientist. I think his actual title is like aeronautics engineer or something like that. I probably butchered it. But he works for NASA, and he's a real deal rocket scientist. 

BIRD: That's legit.

TERRY: You should feel good about yourself because you have rocket scientists listening to you.

BIRD: Well, well, well. That's a huge honor. Austin, you're awesome and I'm super excited about what we talked about, and I am holding you accountable for making it happen. So let's see it.

TERRY: Well I think that the best way to connect with your clients is to connect with their story and not their situation. I think that as you get into a conversational relationship with clientele, and I don't know what industry, everybody listening to this is in. But for those of us who are client-facing, who actually have interactions with and conversations with our clients. It can be just so easy to just connect with their situation. Hey, how you doing today. Yeah, not so good, not a great day. Okay, well, things kind of fall flat right there. But if you have more to talk to a person about and you understand kind of the legacy moment that their life represents, what they're about. Are they married? Do they have kids? What are their interests? Is there something that they're really bad at that they're trying to get good at, that they've adopted as a hobby, and now it's kind of become a piece of like almost their identity? It's like there's this skill set I'm trying to excel at. Maybe that's an opportunity for you to hang on to a talking point is something you can encourage them with or journey with them through. Maybe there's things that you can help them in their pursuit of. Or maybe they just really have a love for dogs or a particular sports team. And they're just conversation pieces you can hang on to. Knowing somebody's story is so much more powerful than just knowing their situation because you can really authentically connect with people on a level of intimacy. I hope that word doesn't sound funny because a lot of times it's only used in like a physical context. But intimacy. In to me see. Being able to see past just somebody's facial expression of stress when they walk in the door, and no like, I'm going to put a smile on your face before you leave here today. And here's how. I'm going to actually connect with you and remind you that you matter.

BIRD: Yeah, I think a great way we handle this at The League is we actually train our team to like, like, notice these types of things and people. So for example, you know, someone walks in and they have on a UT shirt or their Texans jersey. It's like, oh wow, that's a talking point. So if you have a brick-and-mortar business, it's super easy to do this. You just kind of see what they're wearing, see what they're talking about. How was their day? Remember if it was their kid's birthday party and bring it up again like the next week so they feel like, wow, they actually really remembered that. Super easy to do that. And even if you have an online business, there's ways to connect with your clients online. Remember stories you've talked about. If someone shoots you a DM, actually respond, actually care. Check out their page and see what they're about. And people feel like they're seeing and then they can connect with you that way.

TERRY: As long as you don't get cheesy with it, you know, don't make it obvious you're looking for cues, and don't even make that your motive. Like, get into a mode where that's an involuntary thing, so that you're not, oh hey I noticed you're wearing this shirt. I'm a fan of them too. Making sure it's not mechanical. And one thing that kind of helps me with that is like, how would I want this person to engage with me? Like if I mentioned to somebody that I love Spartan Races and I've gone out and I've competed before. It's just kind of cool if you ask me, not how's Spartan Race going, because it's like I know you're into Spartan Race, so I'm gonna say the word Spartan Race. But what if it's like, hey, you got any new monthly mileage goals? And I'm like yeah I'm gonna talk your ear off about how I'm in this new group with these awesome guys and we're challenging each other to run more miles.

BIRD: Yeah, so basically it's just being authentic, right? Being authentic in terms of your purpose and what you're trying to do, cause people can really sniff out when, like you said, it's targeted or you know awkward in that way. So, yeah, just be your authentic self and really care about people. Okay, next. If entrepreneurs are kind of needing to reframe their thinking, to be in alignment with this, how would you say they should go about that?

TERRY: Yeah, I think that a lot of entrepreneurs, and I hate to just overgeneralize us and say something that could seem kind of derogatory toward us as a people group, business owners. But a lot of us are so infected I think mentally by Instagram culture. Like everything is so cropped and filtered and plastic and let me position it in this or that way so that I look good. I got to look like a boss, a leader, a maven of some sort. I think that we need to reframe our thinking so that we're not focused on trying to be awesome. But instead, we're focused on trying to see awesome. And what I mean by that is, every single person we interact with. We want to find something in them that's worthy of celebrating. And for some people, it's really easy to do. Some people are super genuine, super charismatic, super fun. Some people are like, look dude I'm just here to consume the goods and services that you provide, and I'm not really looking to have a conversation with you. I don't really feel comfortable revealing a whole lot about myself. You know, one guy came in the gym a couple weeks ago and I was like, "Hey what's up man. First time here. What's your name?" He was like "D". Like okay is that your whole government name? Your mama really just named you that initial? 

BIRD: I don't want you to know my name.

TERRY: Yeah, you know, like some people are kind of more reserved or more guarded and that's okay. Even with D, I don't need to connect with you on a first-name basis. Nor do I need to go and try to sneak and read some roster and find out what your name was and then use that to prove how genuine I am. It's cool. You're D. Awesome. Me and D are friends. And then I noticed something about D's performance in the workout that's compliment worthy or whatever the case may be. But the point is, we cannot as entrepreneurs, walk around with this S on our chest, like, here I am. When clients come in the door, it's, "There you are. I'm so happy you're here today." Finding those little things that you can connect with people on at a genuine level to where you can truly celebrate them. Like their wins become your wins.

BIRD: Oh I love it so much. That is so good, especially when I think about it in terms of like, you know, the S on your chest and trying to be like a super hotshot entrepreneur, you know. That doesn't connect with people. Instead, show people your flaws, where have you messed up, you know, be transparent. That goes so far in terms of connecting with people. Because it's like, oh wow, she's a human, she feels, and I can connect with her there. So I think yeah not trying to be big boss, #CEO, and just being yourself is so key.

TERRY: Definitely. I see that play out a lot of times when we're doing our offseason training protocol with athletes. So these professional athletes will come in and obviously, you know their name is being said on ESPN. They make a good salary. Like they're in a certain context, they're, you know, they're hot stuff, right? But when you put people through a challenging drill, they are nothing but human. They get tired. They ask how much more time do I have to spend in this set. How much rest time am I gonna get to recover. Like, you're gonna see armor fall off of any and everybody at any moment. And the cool thing is, I noticed that my relationship with those people, gets better when that weakness is exposed. Like you feel stronger knowing that it's okay for me to be weak in front of you.

BIRD: Yeah. Awesome. Okay, so when you think about your relationship with your client, who is your client in relation to you? How do you view that relationship?

TERRY: I view it two ways. I think that my client is my boss. Anybody listening that has like a little bit of like ego somewhere in there that they don't want to own up to, probably about little twins there. We like to say we are our own boss. But in reality, it'd be better for us to just own that we are healthier as entrepreneurs if we have a lot of bosses, right? If your business grows big time and you got a whole lot of clients, well you got a whole lot of bosses. You got a whole lot of people to listen to, who can call the shots, give you direct feedback, so you know exactly how you're doing so that you're able to better serve them. And then, if I could just be corny and use another B-word. I'm gonna say they're also my bestie. Like, where else can your boss be your best friend? Like working in corporate America. I don't think a lot of people would consider their boss to be a close friend. It's just somebody that you respect, maybe you even fear or feel a little insecure around. Like my performance is kind of a thing. Like that's the elephant in the room here, kind of contaminates conversation. But I think that as entrepreneurs we have this beautiful and unique opportunity to embrace the fact that our clients are our bosses. They do call the shots. They are worth listening to. And it's actually imperative that we do listen to what they have to say, take their feedback to heart, and perform in a way that well represents their stances on things. But then they're also like our besties. They're our homies. They're our friends. They are people that we get into authentic and genuine relationships with. I know my life has been changed by some of our clients. And I'm just totally humbled and honored that they would feel that we've changed their life in some way. These are people I'll journey with forever.

BIRD: Yeah, that's great. Especially on the boss piece. I think when you look at your business as though it's service to others, that's when you really win. So if you're going in to serve these people, there is not like, oh, here I am cool business owner walking around the gym. Instead, it's like, "Hey, can I get you some water? Hey, do you need to like..." You're there to serve, and that really sets your business apart because people can feel that. Awesome, okay. 

So have you ever seen this done poorly? Like is there an example out there like this not working well?

TERRY: Yeah, for sure. So I try to, anytime I speak of another entrepreneur, only speak of them in an honoring tone. But as I'm giving an example here of seeing this client relations thing not go over so well, there was a business co-owned by two gentlemen. One of them was kind of the face of the brand. And one of them was kind of ducked off in the back office. Well, this gentleman who was the face of the brand, kind of word around town was that he just wasn't really the most kind or endearing guy. Like he knew everything about everything. He was super proficient in the performance of essential tasks of what this business was here to do. But he just couldn't quite be the lovable dude that people really would have preferred to connect with. So it kind of starts to affect the strength of their business. And they're starting to see people leave their business and go to the competition. And then he makes a bold move. He owns like okay, something's not working here. He then shifts back, lets his business partner step into the forefront. That guy was a dynamic people person. Now, this dude didn't quite have the same aptitude and proficiency as his business partner who used to be the face of the brand when it came to certain pieces that would really carry this boat. But because people liked him, it was like an instant spike, like instant success. All of a sudden everything turned around, and their story was kind of redeemed by it. So I just think that's a really cool example and something we can all take note of. Because if we as entrepreneurs, who are looking to grow and scale, and really do client relations right. Like, what if we really get honest and say, how am I doing in that department?

BIRD: Yeah, that's great. I love that.  And it really helps to kind of provide some context. And on the flip side, so what does it look like when it's done well?

TERRY: When it's done well, relationships are king. People realize that the greatest currency you could ever earn is friendships. Like think about anything you could ever, and gosh I hope this isn't taken wrongly. Hear my heart. You don't want to do any of this without being genuine. Like, don't use people for gain. Hear me on that. But think about anything that's worth obtaining and working hard for. It's always going to take a relationship, right? LeBron James, most talented basketball player in the world. But he was going to need a general manager to draft him, and a commissioner to co-sign on that, and somebody to sign some paper saying you can go straight from high school to the league, and not go to college. There was gonna be people in the way. For any and everything, you have to have people that, not just that you go and lean on and hustle hard to impress. But, like, really genuine and authentic relationships with people that can then hold the potential to play out in your favor. And I see great brands do this all the time by just doing what we were talking about. Doing just vibe with your tribe. Connect with your people. Celebrate good things in your people. I think about an athletic apparel brand that I do representation for as an ambassador. I didn't even know that they were scouting me out for that. They were just super kind to me and always just said we love what you're up to, what you're doing, and we want to support that. And the way they found to support that was to bring me on as an ambassador to which of course, my first question is, well, what do you want me to do for you, right? Like, what's the catch? Do I have to advertise? Like what's the promo situation look like? They were like, "No, no, no. You don't get it. We love what you're up to and who you're out here being and how you're showing up in the world. So you go and do and be that, and then just bring us along for the ride." And so I think that that's incredible when we're able to do that, even with our clients, even as small businesses. We might not own some massive publicly traded brand. But when people are coming through our doors, how are we doing about celebrating what we see in them, such that they can then become an ambassador of our brand? That they can become a relationship that then opens more doors for us. Organically, of course, not in a forced sense., But because they just actually genuinely like you. Not just the product that they're getting from you. But they like you.

BIRD: Yeah, another practical way we do this at The League, and if you have a brick-and-mortar business or if you have a lot of clients, this is just one idea. Is we do something called League Lives. So we're using the branding of our gym which is called The League, and we create these one-off events. There's no crazy set time or anything to them. But whenever something feels right, we're like, Hey, we're going to do sand volleyball, and people just love it. Or we're going to be up at a restaurant. Or you know our Christmas party. We have these different League Lives where people can connect. Because if you think about it, it's a sweaty gym that people are seeing each other in and it's so funny when we have these events because it's like, oh wow, that's how you look without, you know, your hair in a ponytail and all grimy, you know coming after work rushing to get into class. Like wow, you know you clean up nice kind of thing. And so not only are we connecting with our clients. But we're allowing them to connect with each other because truly people are yearning for connection. People want that. People want more than just what they're getting from your business. They want to feel that connection. So if there are ways you can do that, whether it's a pop-up or however it might look, random little events. It doesn't have to be crazy. It could just be super simple, a way for people to connect either at your location or off-site. It's just another way to really like promote that connection, which really just takes your brand to another level because people are able to connect in that way. 

Okay, great. So, um, how do you make your own story more accessible to clients? I know people kind of struggle sometimes. We talked a little bit about transparency earlier. Sometimes people are like, I don't know if I'm even that interesting. Or I don't know if I'm gonna really connect with people or if there's anything interesting I have to say. Or maybe there's tough parts of my past or of my life that I don't really want to talk about. So how do you connect your story and make it more accessible to clients?

TERRY: Well I think there's a big difference for a lot of us between what we do for a living. And what we are living. I think it's really important that we show our clients, what we're living, especially as it pertains to the culture of our brand. So for example, being a gym owner. I like to just let people see me sweat. You know there's a big, there's an old adage that says "Never let them see you sweat". And it was meant to be like, keep your tough guy face on. You know, don't let your competition one-up you and that kind of deal. Look man, as a gym owner, I would hate to be the guy that is constantly. here I go again using the Instagram analogy, cropping and filtering my reality to make it look like I'm just a beast in the gym. I'd rather you know that I'm doing this workout today too, that I'm leading you all through. And yeah, it kind of hurts and there's some challenging pieces of it. But I'm getting through it, and I'm stronger because I subjected myself to that moment of weakness. Yeah, I'm walking around here sore. We can have a whole conversation laugh about that too. 

I think about a story I once heard from a guy who was whitewater rafting. And he's getting ready to take his family on this trip, and there were two potential guides he could go with, and he didn't know which guy he wanted to go with. So, one guy was like, I mean had just gone to every seminar imaginable and could name drop the best whitewater rafters and you know he knows all this stuff about whitewater rafting. He's only been a couple times and he's just getting started to actually get on the water, but he's really learned a whole lot about what he's gonna experience when he gets on the water. Well, this other guy he talked to had zero formal education. But he was like yeah my grandma lived right by some rapids, when I was a kid and I was at her house every weekend and I've gone up and down this river, like every year for the past three decades. Well, he chose the guy who's living it, not the guy who does it for a living. And why wouldn't he? Like clients can be inspired by perfection. But they can only relate with vulnerability. Like, don't tell me I'm a mastermind at this because I graduated with this and that degree. Which it is so good to get merits and to learn things, and to progress. I'm not taking a dump on academia. I have a master's degree in my field myself. But quite frankly I think it's so much more powerful to clients that I'm actually living it. That I'm actually trying my best to be on a good workout program and nutrition program as a fitness instructor. But then I'm also really honest about the times when I have to skip a day, because I'm just super tired, or I'm sore or life is too busy trying to corral my two kids. Or the fact that every now and then, I'm gonna get me a good pizza. I eat clean as a lifestyle. But living it out and then also being very honest about the moments that come along the journey that show a kink in the armor, an imperfection, something that people can actually relate to.

BIRD: Yes, yes, and yes. Y'all know that, as I launched Bird Williams Consulting, we were also wanting Terry the Trainer app. I'm also getting ready to launch an event center with my family as well. So there's a lot going on, and it's kind of crazy and it can seem overwhelming. But also, it's like, yeah. I'm helping other clients do the same thing -  launching and growing their businesses. So it's like, I have a lot of great content. I am like in the mud. I'm like rolling around with y'all because I'm doing this again and again and again. So it's just super helpful to be like yeah this is, this is what it is like this is the every day and people can really relate to it there. So I totally see how that kind of ties in. I love that cool. Are there any other takeaways?

TERRY: Yeah, I think my final takeaway would just be this. Don't fake it till you feel it. Another old adage, "Fake it, till you make it." Just kind of like, put yourself in the position that supposes that you got it going on because then you're kind of getting into a rhythm of it. You get used to it and then it kind of eventually comes to be. Look when it comes to relationships with other human beings because we are relational beings. Don't go and just fake it because it's gonna just totally be cheesy. People don't actually connect with anything that's not real, raw relatable. Got to be candid got to be vulnerable. So it's better if you're not really in the mode of mastering this to not go and jump into tomorrow, it's like  Oh tomorrow I'm going to become a maven at connecting with people. No, maybe you just get a little bit more honest tomorrow. So, "Hey how you doing today?" You don't have to cook up some story about how you're doing great and awesome and try to make it inspirational to them. "You know, I've really had better days," That raw honesty is going to draw people to you even more. And telling people what you don't know, I find helps a whole lot. Something that you're exploring that you're working on that you haven't quite yet figured out. But that you know with confidence when you do pull it together, it's going to take you to another level. Telling that story is incredible. You're not dooming yourself to lacking something. But you're not totally falsely elevating yourself to a level of having mastered something. You're simply sharing with people, something that you're navigating, journeying through, and on your way to seeing a victory in.

Yay yah. I love it. Awesome. Thanks for hopping into the studio with me tonight. 

TERRY: Fa sho. Appreciate you stepping into my life.
BIRD: Yah, yah. All right, Well thank you so much for following us on Spotify, for subscribing on Apple Podcasts, and for telling your entrepreneur friends about Bird Means Business. Talk to you next week.