BIRD WILLIAMS: You’re listening to Bird Means Business Episode 36.

Hi there and welcome to the Bird Means Business podcast. I am so glad that you are here. Thank you for taking space in your day, time to sit here with me, and Terry.

TERRY WILLIAMS: She looked at me with googly eyes before she said it. You be flirting in here, Bird.

BIRD: My best friend in the world is in the studio with me today. And we are about to talk about marriage and business and just balancing family time and all the things. Y’all, I told him, before we got started I was like, Babe, I want to be super open and vulnerable through this podcast. And he was like yeah, I'm here for it.

TERRY: Yeah I think it's gonna be really good.

BIRD: Yeah, so we're excited to jump in. If you don't know, Terry and I own a gym here in Houston called The League. We have our own proprietary PAC(K) training format. And we've had it since December 2013. So we've been in the game for a long time. We have 10 amazing team members at The League and an incredible community of Leaguers, what we call them. They grind hard and we have a lot of fun. So we love what we get to do. Before we get started, Terry actually has a listener shout out that he wants to share.

TERRY: Yeah, I want to shout out a really awesome couple Tim and Faby Broussard, who own Fab and Fit Foods. They're incredible. They’re down with Bird Means Business. And they have this really awesome meal prep company that does healthy food, delivered to the door. And they're just like, great, learners. You know what I mean? I think you got to be a learner before you're a leader. And they as business owners are always asking the right questions and looking to really grow. So I think it's awesome. And I wanted to shout them out. So I love that they're a piece of the Bird Means Business community.

BIRD: Yes, and y’all, Fab and Fit Foods, the meal prep company they own, is so clutch, especially right now during COVID. Their meals have saved me so many days where I just didn't have lunch or didn't have something prepared or I'm on the go and need to be able to bring something. Terry has a whole bunch of them at The League whenever he's there. And I'm always asking him, hey can I have this turkey and cauliflower rice one, because that's my favorite. Check them out. Fab and Fit Foods. They are awesome awesome people,

TERRY: No forced promo by the way. They're really, really dope people. And we really believe in what they do, and we're grateful for it.

BIRD: On the topic of dope companies, Terry I want you to tell them about Terry the Trainer App.

TERRY: Yeah, for sure. So Terry the Trainer App takes the gym experience and it just sends it to people around the world, wherever you are with that little lit-up rectangle pockets. We had The League going for years, people who live in Houston, people who are into warehouse gyms, people who could come and engage with us at the gym would. But through social media, we would make contact with so many people who were like, I don't live in Houston. Or, I'm not the gym type, I like to workout at home. Or what about workouts on demand? Can you write up a program for me? And so I said you know what, I’m going to get on a production schedule, get some great workouts that are published in an app platform. And then we just went more and more robust from there. So now it's not just the workouts. It's every single week there is a meal prep recipe with a beautiful image of the food and really simple step-by-step guide, the groceries, and the game plan. That grocery list is included in the recipe so it makes it simple. Mindset modules. I think mindset coaching is now my favorite thing to do. I mean, it used to just be like, we’ll count sets and reps and I'll motivate people and turn up some great music and we'll give physical fitness training. But I think mental fitness is super important too. So I've really enjoyed using the app to journey with the whole human. But it's really easy to download in the iTunes App Store. If you have an iPhone, or the Google Play Store if you have an Android. It's $14.99 a month. It's the same cost as like Audible or services like that. And you get tons of workouts, meal prep recipes, mindset coaching, and it's all just 24 Seven streamable on-demand, anywhere in the world. 

BIRD: It's super legit. One of my favorite pieces was during quarantine, there was the family room and it's still there. And he has this whole segment, a piece on intermittent fasting. And that's something that I actually started during quarantine where I only eat eight hours a day. I mean Terry does the same thing. Our eating schedule is 11 to 7. We fast the rest of the day and it has been really really amazing. He breaks it down and it's just so good. So the app is more than just workouts. It's workouts, nutrition, mindset coaching, and then just bonus material which is top of the line, because he's a smarty pants, and he's a geek about all this stuff. 

TERRY: Just to give clarity, family room is a tab that’s still in the app for as long as any portion of the United States is under lockdown or quarantine because it's just something we want to do to love people well. So there's a little bit of free content, couple workouts, and that kind of deal. The course she's talking about is called the Clean Eating masterclass. 

BIRD: There you go.

TERRY: Intermittent fasting is a small piece of it. But it goes into so much detail about how to get the right proteins and fruits and veggies and it's amazing. But it's a totally free resource.

BIRD: Wonderful. So even if you don't pay now, just go in there. Jump in the Terry the Trainer App in the family room and get all that free content. All right, I'm being silly. Okay, we're gonna jump into the episode now. You ready?

TERRY: Let's go. 

BIRD: Okay so we are talking all things, marriage and business and balancing family time. So first I want to say, some of y'all who are listening might be like you know what I'm not booed up yet. I don't have a ring on it yet. I'm not married. But I am in this entrepreneurial game. And I wanted to say something to y'all because I was recently talking with a friend who wants to be an entrepreneur. And that friend was telling me how they procrastinate and how they just kind of really can't get out of the rut of procrastination. You know what I told him? I said, whenever it was just me before I was married. You know, I was actually working in New York on Wall Street as an investment banking analyst. And whatever I did in my life really only affected me right. But once I got married, I was like, okay. When I have an issue, like if I procrastinate and wait to the last minute to do something, and I'm stressed and frustrated and in a mood. It doesn’t just affect me and my life anymore. It now affects someone else. So, getting married, actually helped me work out, you know, things like that in my life because I can't really procrastinate. And then, well I can, but it will affect my husband who I love and I don't want it to affect our marriage, right? And then kids amplify it even more. Oh my goodness kids just don't allow procrastination, right? 

TERRY: Right, not at all. Because your schedule is no longer your own when you have kids. It's your kids’ schedule.

BIRD: Like it is survival out here and you will not make it if you procrastinate. Like you have to be on top of things, or at least in our lives because we're just way crazy busy.

TERRY: Yeah, great example there about overcoming procrastination. That's one example of a way that you can just become so much better and bring so much more value into a marriage, into parenting, even into business. But I mean like you said there's people who are single and listening to this, even as they're not yet married. I would say it's a great opportunity to just kind of take some notes. I mean we're not experts. We are learners in a position of being leaders. We are navigating it and taking notes and just honestly sharing with you some of our reflections. And so we'd say don't focus so much on the type of person that you're hoping to marry one day. Focus on the type of person you're hoping to become so that then you bring more value into a marriage. And maybe you just pick up something out of this conversation that you're like you know what, even if I'm not married today. That's gonna help me for when I am married.

BIRD: Yes and yes and yes, I cannot agree more. Let's just talk about your high-level thoughts around marriage and business. What is it like to be an entrepreneur, and your wife to also be an entrepreneur and kind of do this thing together?

TERRY: It’s a beautiful life because you get to see the rewards or the penalties of the decisions that are being made and the work that's being put in in real-time. It's an unforgiving endeavor. Those words sound heavy. But hear me on this. You get instant feedback, And for people like you and me, Ashley, we love instant feedback. We want to grow. We want to learn. We want to see. Oh, that worked? Awesome. We either double down on or refine the system by which we do it and we keep rolling. Oh, that didn't work? You know what? We got to remove all emotion from it, no matter how it feels, we can't return to this thing that doesn't work, right? Playing chess not checkers is what it feels like. Not going to a nine to five, but building brands together. It is harder to clock out. It’s harder to take time away from work. These are, I guess challenges that are in the mix. But then it's just, it's so beautiful because when we decide that we want to go on vacation. We inform our own staff that we are looking to do that. And they step in and they support and they help out. And then we in generosity look for opportunities where we can maybe relieve them for a little bit of time as well. Like, it's great to be able to put together a system and enjoy the fruit of it. It’s a lot of gratification too. And just like appreciating things so much more. Like the small wins for our companies don't feel like the small wins that a corporation that we work for. Our small wins, feel like Super Bowl victories. Like, I cannot believe something that we built, just had that win. You know what I mean?

BIRD: One of the biggest things for me, when we started, you know, running The League, as it grew, I realized most married couples will you know wake up in the morning, do all the things, and then leave for the day. And they're gone and separated for most of the day. But we're together. And I remember once we were interviewed, years ago about this. And someone asked us that question today. Do y’all ever get tired of each other? And I was like no, actually, like, I wish Terry would sit right next to me all day every day.

TERRY: She does. She wants me like sitting just about on her lap. Like, why are you sitting all the way over there? I'm like, girl, my chair is like three feet from yours and we're at the same table. And she's like no no no. Come closer. 

BIRD: Yeah, so I think I just like that closeness, and it works for us. I've never felt that. But I also think another benefit is that I see Terry working in a way that I wouldn't see otherwise. I see the hardship. I see the effort and energy you're putting into something, as opposed to hearing it like kind of secondhand from you at the end of the day. I'm actually in the fire with you. It makes me appreciate you so much more and love you so much more. I think because I get to see you working in the hard moments too. So it's really special. Anything else on marriage and business?

TERRY: Yeah, I mean I think that it definitely trains you on teamwork. Marriage in business and with kids. Like managing schedules and things like that. There's accountability for both partners in a fresh new way that wouldn't be there for other couples. And just the understanding that we are on the same team. We're in it for the same objectives. If you're taking a loss somewhere, we are losing. If you're winning in some regard. We are winning. If I am winning. I can't be egotistical about me winning. It's us winning. Because anything that I'm leading, you're supporting. Anything that you're leading, I'm supporting. And so I think that that would be probably my biggest takeaway is that us mentality, that team dynamic.

BIRD: Yeah, I have a story that I'm not sure that I've shared on the podcast before. I know I've shared it in kind of other interviews and such. But Terry kind of set the precedent for this while we were dating. If you don't know, Terry was my very first boyfriend. Yeah, I didn't have a boyfriend till I was like 19. We met in college at UT. Hook ‘em horns. We got in our first fight, and I will never forget what he said. He kind of grabbed me by the shoulders in a gentle way. 

TERRY: You made that sound so crazy. 

BIRD: In the middle of this argument he grabbed me. No, I'm not just kidding. He kind of like took hold of me and he looked at me in the eyes and he said, “Ashley, you have to remember. It's never Terry against Ashley or Ashley against Terry. It's Terry and Ashley against the situation.” I was like, dang, that's so good. Like, I had never thought of it that way. I never had, you know, again, first boyfriend. Never thought about conflict resolution like that. And I think it really stuck with me. I mean obviously, still, remember all these years later. And so even in business, I mean, it was cute when we were like 19 in college and an argument. Now with, you know, multiple businesses and children. When we get an argument I still try to go back to that like. It is not him that I'm against. We are against a situation. That situation might be our schedule, our money, or our whatever issue like tiredness, exhaustion, all that. But it's not him. So let's figure out how we can team up to his point, and attack the situation because that’s the real enemy.

TERRY: Yeah, for sure. I want to just reframe that whole story. We had had a disagreement, and I lovingly took her by the shoulders and looked her in the eyes, and reassured her in saying it’s us against the situation. I just wanted to reframe that in case anybody's like, oh shoot, Terry’s out here grabbing this girl. 

BIRD: Yeah that's, maybe I made it sound bad. But I kind of like saying he grabbed me. Anyway, I kind of like that. It’s a little bit more intensive and feisty. Getting giddy, okay. So I love that. And so how would you say, how do we balance family time?

TERRY: Family time. Family time is huge. If you are in business with your spouse, and you have kids especially. Well, I'll take the parenting angle just because that's kind of where we're at. Family time above everything else. Family time is priority. It does not matter how big or important or special or successful your business is. If your family is taking a loss at expense of it. Then frankly, I hate that this sounds rude. Now I’m the one wearing things aggressively, right? Like your brand is worth nothing, even if it's worth millions if it comes at the expense of your family time suffering. I'm not saying that family time is gonna always just be hunky-dory. And it's not just all roses. When you're running a business, there are sacrifices that have to happen. That’s certain and that's understandable. And you know, to a certain extent it's inevitable. Family cannot take the backseat. Family deserves the best of you and not the rest of you. Family can't be getting leftovers after you've just gotten stressed out, fatigued, and got your brain going 1000 different directions. Our children deserve to have us look them in the eye, ask them intentional questions that probe a little bit and stimulate brain activity in how they answer the question. Not just yes or no questions. Not just, here's the tablets, sit in front of the TV, let YouTube babysit you. But actual quality time. Getting out of the house. Having fun activities. 

Let me go back to your question, how you stated, how do we do family time? The way that we do it really simple is just on a basis of priority. We might be really busy or also going to be very present parents and very involved. For us, it's, you know, every now and then we have to redo kind of our calendar, our commitments. Learn to say no to some things, so that we can protect that buffer that we built in for family time. Speaking just purely as myself, Terry the Trainer App, man is going well. And we have huge plans for it to do even better. The League, been around seven years strong. What you're doing in your consulting firm, Ashley. It's phenomenal, right? Me personally, if any of this makes me less of a present father or less committed of a husband, that's really gonna prioritize quality time. Then I'm like, we can just shut it all down. I don't need material success in the same way as I need my family unit to be strong. And we don't do it for money anyway. Like we built businesses around loving people well. And it was like, you got to build a business around that idea for this to be something you can then take into the world. So here we are as business owners, right? I think people need to hear from a business owner that capitalism, doesn't take the front seat, and is that quality time that does. And if we're successful, then cool. That's great, right? But that's not the main focus. 

BIRD: Yeah. Ooh, and what is the main focus? This is the question I'm always asking myself and asking the business owners I work with. Like, remember your why. What is your why? And I say that because if the reason we have these businesses, and we're building these empires is for our kids, because we want to, you know, our kids to be able to pay for their college or to be able to set them up for success. Then we can't miss our kids which is the actual why, as we're you know, laser-focused on building these businesses. This is just a means to an end. But we can't forsake the actual purpose of what we're trying to do. I agree with everything you said, keeping them at the forefront. And practically in our lives, how do we do this. You mentioned a few things. But we have a joint calendar. Y'all know I'm all about systems. So we have a joint calendar, and it's color-coded. Well, mine is at least. We will add something to the calendar. If I do, he'll be able to see it. So for example, right now, in this weird quarantine situation, we have our kids all day on Friday. So that means that if something happens on Fridays that’s outside of their naptime. They're literally napping right now. Well, at least one is. Terry might still be up he was like.

TERRY:  Little Terry is absolutely awake in his bed right now.

BIRD: And we're hoping he doesn't hear us, as we're in the guest bedroom closet. But, during their nap time, that's when we kind of schedule, all of our work. But let's say something happens outside of that. Well, then I'm going to make sure to add it to our joint calendar and talk to Terry about it, like, hey I don't really know how to get around this right now. This is the only time that works. And he's cool with it. There was even another day, it was a Saturday, actually. when Terry had an engagement that he thought was at 9 PM. And then last minute it was like, oh, just kidding, it's at 9 AM.

TERRY: Right, it got misreported by the organization where they said can you be available for a 9 PM Zoom call. I said, absolutely. And I even said, that's after the kids go down to bed, it's perfect. 

BIRD: It was in the calendar and everything. And then that morning, he reached out to him like, hey, can't wait to see you at night. He was like 9 PM, right? And they were like, no. He had to adjust. And of course that I was happy too. But the crazy thing is later that day, a news outlet, asked him to come into our restaurant. We are passive owners for a restaurant here in Houston and they wanted to come about, you know, shoot him, you know, it's like, I was like okay. So my point is just that you might have a perfect system and plan. You might have the best heart and intentions. But there will be times inevitably where it doesn't work. That you're able to have grace for each other.

TERRY:  Be nimble. 

BIRD: Yeah, and just being open to that too. Because the reality and, y’all know I keep it real. When you are launching a business, it is going to be very tough in the beginning. I would just say the first year at least. Unless you're able to just, you know you have the capital to hire out a whole bunch of people. It's going to be gruesome for about a year. So you want to just make sure that you are upfront and honest with your spouse about that. It’s you know one thing if y'all are in it together. Of course, maybe there's more understanding. But if you are the entrepreneur and your husband has a nine to five or vice versa. You want to make sure to say like, I'm trying my best. I'm doing what I can. And just communicate. I think that's like a central pillar of marriage is communication.

TERRY: And show priority, like, in your words and in your actions. Like really putting forth priority, not perfection but priorities. My intention is this and my calendar is set this way. So as you see us win, every now and then something might happen where we gonna have to be nimble and deviate from it. However, this is the thing we're committed to, focused on, and prioritizing. I think that that's really key. 

BIRD: Absolutely. I've seen Terry do that, again with our Fridays or whatever time set aside. And he'll ask, you know if a brand comes to him with something, and they want to schedule this at a certain time that would get in the way of family time. He'll say, well, can we do this other day you know, can we do this other time? 

TERRY: And sometimes they're like heck no, we gave you an opportunity, take it or leave it. And then we have a conversation, Ashley and I do internally. 

BIRD: But I know that he tried.

TERRY: And she’s going to be understanding. It's that trying first. One example I have is when the biggest brand I've ever done engagement with, sent me a message as we were on our family walk about being featured like that brand’s representative father for a big Father's Day campaign. But it was like I’m literally on a walk with my wife and kids right now. So I'll wait to respond to that. So after this walk is over. It’s like one of the biggest career moments. But it's like you know what? That can absolutely wait. Because if I'm going to not be dad, as a present imaginative fun Dad, that's in the middle of this family adventure right now to say yes, for some business-related reason, pretending to be a dad. That's a step outside of my integrity. It's not that I didn't get back to them. I just prioritized that family time. In a safe space moment where it was not going to harm, quality time, I decided to go ahead and get back to them.

BIRD: Yeah, oh my gosh, I will just be honest. I'm going to open up to you all. In this next little portion, get real transparent on some things. But Terry is really great at that and it's definitely an area that I can improve in. He said that can wait. And like, that is what I have to tell myself again and again. Because I am the kind of person who I check my email incessantly. And I get like thrilled by it and it's really strange. I used to take my phone to the bathroom with me just cause I felt like I had always had my phone on me. And that's not okay. That's not healthy. And I think that's when I really started to think about the fact that I have an unhealthy relationship with work. I think it's because I like it so much, I enjoy what I'm doing so much, that I want to always be connected to it and that's not good. And so Terry and I actually started seeing a marriage counselor, last year.

TERRY: Best decision ever. Recommend it.

BIRD: We've talked about this a bit, I think outside of the podcast. But don't wait until your marriage is in a bad place. Honestly, ours was not in a bad place. 

TERRY: Yeah, can I just really quick? I have to. Please remember what you were going to say because I don't want to interrupt. I want to say to everybody who is married. Marriage counseling, listen. Our marriage is a good marriage, we're happy in our marriage. I want everybody to hear that and know that. That is the time to go and start marriage counseling. If you start it when your marriage is in a dangerous place, there's all this like having to rebuild trust and, like, open up some deep wounds, right? But think about anything significant you've ever pursued in your life. You've asked for help. I want this degree. Well, you're gonna definitely need to go in enroll and have some experts who are not you, telling you how to pursue something. You need those professors, right? Or man I really want to give a fit. And so you go to a gym and you get a trainer. There's instruction. There's somebody who is not you, giving wisdom to you, to help you. You're still having to do the work. But you turn out a whole lot better because of that guidance. And in the same way, I recommend it to every single married couple. Go get a third party who is not you and is not your spouse and isn’t bound to the silly little thoughts that you get in your head in moments of disagreement, and who can give you wisdom, objective wisdom to help you to grow. And so your marriage, like that person that goes to the gym, just grows stronger muscles. And it's just like we had a good marriage for sure. But then we started talking to this cat Pierre Cannings who was amazing. And now we have a, like, great marriage. 

BIRD: Yeah, and as it's just funny you used those examples - working out, going to college, you know, or getting education. It's like why don't we think that you know, our marriage will take work? Work doesn't have to be bad. But you know, why don't we want to get trained on being a better husband or wife? You know, we have to put in the work there too. We started seeing Pierre last year. And y'all, it was incredible. I remember one of our big aha moments. And our first session which was supposed to be an hour and it was like two and a half, three hours. He was so gracious with that. I needed to not have my laptop in our bedroom. And you have to understand like I said. I love to work. And you know, I think, when it was just the two of us before kids, it wasn't as big of a deal because we were just going. You know, you're young, you're moving fast, growing the gym. But then you know when you put kids in the mix, your schedule isn't as flexible. You know, we couldn't just hang out whenever. We have these two little humans who are relying on us for more structure and all that. Now it's like us time is even less. And I kind of carried, things like having my laptop in the bedroom over. And this is the thing. We did not plan to talk about this in our session. It was in our session that Pierre brought it up. I was just talking through and he was like okay so you have your laptop in the bedroom. And then I was like, yeah. And then so he basically uncovers that Terry has like a signal go off in his brain when he walks into the room and sees me on my laptop that's like, okay, Ashley’s checked out. She's in work mode. We're not going to connect tonight, basically. And not just sex or intimacy. But any 

TERRY: Like connection at all. Yep, not a good time to start a conversation with Ashley cause she's focused and I can’t throw her off of that.

BIRD: Yeah and that's not what I was trying to put across. I was thinking yeah we can talk I can work, we can just hang out and he's every like,

TERRY: And for somebody with my personality type. it’s like this ain’t hanging if you're working too.

BIRD: Right. We've done our love languages. Both of us I think our second is quality time. And we define it differently too. So I mean, there's so many if you haven't done a Love Languages book or taken those tests, please do. It will be a game-changer. Also, Enneagram just to throw it out there. And I'm not going to go into it. Search it, find your Enneagram number and your spouse's, and yep gamechanger. In that first session, it was like, oh wow okay I need to not have my laptop in the bedroom so since then I haven't and it's been amazing. Well, In our most recent session which was what yesterday, two days ago?

TERRY: Just a couple of days ago, yeah.

BIRD: What was uncovered was, I need to not talk about work all the time. And again, I'm not trying to like say I'm a terrible person. 

TERRY: Because you're not. I'll give some background on that too.

BIRD: I'm just trying to give you kind of give an example of what maybe other entrepreneurs might be dealing with or facing, whether it's you or your spouse. But not talking about work all the time. We kind of got to this conversation about, Terry's like, well yeah we'll be in the car and we're like, the little quick road trip or whatever driving into town. And you know, Terry wants to turn up this new album, you know he's listened to and wants to share it with me. I have a whole list of things that I'm going to do in the car ride so that I can continue to be productive. That's not okay that's not healthy. There has to be times where I'm not working or not talking to him about work. And that was like, again, a mind-blowing moment which y’all might be listening to this, like, girl you're crazy and that's wild. But that's just I guess where I am. And I want to encourage y’all that if you find yourself in the same place, or if your spouse is in the same place, like, talk about it. Work through it because it not healthy.

TERRY: Well I would say this too though. Like, it's not like Ashley only ever talks about work, it's not. I don't think it's at an unhealthy level.

BIRD: If you haven’t picked up, I'm more extreme in language sometimes.

TERRY: Right, well no I just for context though, because I feel like some people listening might be like, oh my goodness, that's me, my marriage is ruined cause all I do is talk about work. Don't feel bad, it's all good. This is an example she's giving of something that she's working through. I can still celebrate her for who she is. She likes to talk about work. But then we also build in some margin and have some times where we're not talking about work, and there's balance. So one thing that Pierre was saying in this conversation was if you've got a 20-minute car ride, and somebody just starts going off like a machine gun, the conversations been dominated. And so finding kind of that safe balance point both partners get equal share, and then also possibly using something like a car ride as okay when we do this activity, we don't bring work into that activity. So there's like kind of time buckets. There's boundaries. Everything has its place. Because think about it to either extreme. Let's say, both of us were like Ashley. So we would both just work, work, work, talk about work, do work. Burnout would probably happen. We'd probably be really stressed. Or let's say both partners are more like me. Okay, time to clock out, no talk about work. That extreme could be very dangerous too, because now we're missing deadlines, we're not getting things done on time. But it’s the balance. It's her being more bent toward work, and me being when I'm working, I'm all in on work. But then when I step away from work, I'm not gonna talk about work right. So it's not that I work less. It’s that when it's not work time, it's like, work is off. And so it's this middle ground, right? Because either extreme is very dangerous. But we can find that middle ground where she leans a little bit my direction, like okay yeah. Maybe I won't talk about work all the time. And when I lean a little bit her direction like, hey, what are you up to? Give me an update on your projects. 

BIRD: I love when he does that. 
TERRY: See, she's giving feedback here in the moment. It's that balance. It's that I serve you, you serve me. We're always looking for ways to better serve each other. Then we step into a very healthy place where we are meeting our deadlines. We are getting things done. We do have new innovative ideas and great systems behind them, and we're building things, right? But then we're also being very present parents. We're also being 

BIRD: spouses. 

TERRY: Yeah, you know what I’m saying? Getting to, like, have a great time and sit down and watch some documentaries together in the evenings. And, you know, sitting looking each other in the eye without our iPhones in our hands at dinner table. It just becomes so beautiful because you get to work hard and play hard.

BIRD: Yeah, and I think some practical tips on this too is like a couple of things. One, if you have a spouse who likes to talk a lot about work, like, give them a time limit increase and grace. So say like, hey let's talk about this for 15 minutes, and then we're gonna go on to something else or we know we're gonna go on about our day or whatever. I think that is a really good, there's sometimes I just want to get something out or I have a question or I'm really excited about something I want to share. Then I think having some boundaries in terms of like, this isn't gonna go on for an hour conversation, kind of thing. And then another thing is what we actually said in our conference call with Pierre, Terry was like, and I love when he says this. He's like, “How can I help you with this? I know this is something that you're trying to work through. How can I help you?”  And I look at him and I say, I was thinking like, I think if you were to come into the room. Because I basically work in our front room right now. It’s kind of my office. If you were to come in there, cause I’m trying not work past six o'clock, And that's aggressive for me because I was up to like 2 AM the other night. So I'm trying not to work past 6 PM, 6:30 PM. And I'm like if you were to just come in the room like 15 minutes before that are really like 30 cause I'm going to probably need to wrap some stuff up. And just say, “Hey Babe, you have like 30 minutes and I can't wait to hang out with you, we're going to do something fun, or like I can't wait.” You know, I’ll be like right. Just something to help me stay accountable. So just find things like that in your marriage where again you come at each other with grace. You can’t walk in the room and be like “Girl, it's time to get off your computer. You've been on it all day. 

TERRY: Yeah, like I'm probably gonna go and kiss the girl on her forehead and you know let her know what we have up, what's planned for the evening, you know, yeah. And then also there's grace on the other side of that too. Like she doesn't work past a certain time, but then there are time containers within boundaries. So like Tuesday night and Friday night we agreed on, you can work as late as you need to so that then as she gets super busy and has multiple projects. She doesn't have this freakout moment like nothing fits into this new schedule. It wasn't fair for me to agree to this. Instead, it’s you know what? This sounds like a Tuesday night kind of project because I have that safe space. 

BIRD: And I want to say that in my heart of hearts, in my ideal world, I will not have to work past 6 PM, and it won't be hard. But we launched two businesses, seven months ago.

TERRY: We’re still in that startup mode.

BIRD: And we have another business that’s going. And we have two little kids. And we have, you know, our church. We're really involved in our church. So we have a lot going on, and we can't just, you know, whatever. So that's why it's great that I have those time containers. I do one day aspire to not have to work a whole lot. It'll be a lot easier. I don't want y’all to think that's my goal. It's just is what it is right now. And so I also want to just say that because it's not sustainable to be in a grind like this, you know an indefinite amount of time. There are time limits. Like I said, when you're launching a business the first year-ish might be tough. If you have more help, that might look more like six months. It just really depends. But just be honest with yourself about where you are and where you want to be not only personally but in your marriage as well. 

So I want to talk a little bit about the faith side of things. If you don't know Terry and I, we love Jesus. We're Christians. And so faith plays a big role in how we do everything in our life. It's the center of who we are. Something that was really really interesting to me as I was having a conversation with someone recently talking about getting to the next level. My thought was this. It might be that things aren't right at home. It might be that you know you're pushing and striving and working so hard for this thing, this breakthrough in some area. And what if it's just that you haven't learned what you need to learn in this stage of your life so that's what's keeping you from that next stage or that next level. There was a story that our pastor, Pastor Joel shared on his Sirius XM Radio, which I listened to, nonstop for like two years. It was amazing. It was a story about a man and a woman who were trying to have a baby. And they’d done everything, all the treatments, all the things. And they just couldn't have a baby. And the husband goes to God and he says, “God, why aren't you letting us have a baby?” And God tells him, “Because of the way you treat your wife.” You know, he's like, you know, “Why would I allow you to bring a baby into the marriage if you don't even know how to treat your wife right?” And the whole point is that you know God will take us from glory to glory and strength to strength like He says He will in His word. But he also doesn't want to throw us to the wolves, you know, he wants us to have a solid foundation before we go to this next level because like He said when you're faithful with the little I'll give you much. So that made me think about in our lives. What is it that I need to break free from or learn or develop in so that when I do get to the next level I can sustain it? Because it's only going to be harder. Who said more money, more problems? You know it's only going to be harder. So I don't have a good routine of getting rest and not working like a crazy woman or all this. When I get to the next level there will just be more excuses to do that. Examine your life and where you are and what God might kind of work out in your life so that you can actually unlock that next level of greatness.

TERRY: Absolutely. You know I think that one key question we can always ask ourselves, what do I need to learn here? Being fully present in a moment what needs to happen in my heart so that I can show up bigger, brighter more powerfully in my work, right? I absolutely agree that sometimes things gotta be paid right at home before you can get them right in public. 

BIRD: Absolutely. Another thing I think about in terms of faith is just something actually Pierre again, Pierre Cannings our marriage counselor is amazing. And he said this in our last session, He said, “If you are both getting quiet time, quality, quiet time with God. Whenever you are wrong, or when you hurt your spouse, whether you intended to or not. God's gonna check you on it. You can't just spend time in the presence of God on a regular basis, and just treat people in your life wrong.  And I just always want to encourage people to make sure you're having that quiet time and make sure you're going to God every single day. That has to be priority. Like I said that's the center of our lives. When I'm doing that consistently. Oh, I can see it in every other area of my life. And when I'm not, I can feel it, you know?

TERRY: Yeah, for sure. 

So, if me and Terry have a conversation and it actually this happened the other day. And you were awesome and coming back and saying like, I'm sorry I was wrong. But we had this conversation, and it did not go the way we planned. God's gonna check you on it. You know you're gonna walk away from that conversation and be like, That was wrong. I didn't respond the right way. I could have said this differently. I could have been more clear. I could have given more grace. I just wanted to share that on just making sure you're getting that good quality time. 

TERRY: Yeah, for sure. I think that when it comes to faith, my faith is a very practical faith. Kind of like Ashley was saying. Like I do my little quiet time, and it's just a time where I will read a devotional I will do a little bit of prayer. But then I will also be quiet for a little bit and allow time and allow space where I really do feel like I get answers to the things that I've asked in prayer. I feel like, not in some deeply spiritual sense. I don't hear some loud voice thundering from the sky. But simply, I feel a peace on some things where I'm like you know what? It would have taken me years and errors and heartache, to ever figure this out. But here I am in this moment, in just an instant, finding an answer. And getting that kind of direction helps because like Ashley said, Scripture says Love God, love people. If you're not loving people well, you're gonna hear about it in those kinds of moments. And it helps you to move forward in the right direction of making amends, writing some wrongs, and being able to be the right kind of person. Becoming the person, if you're not married, maybe becomes a better future spouse. Becoming the person, if you're running a business who is more gracious toward employees or serves clients better, like truly being a servant leader. Game-changer.

BIRD: Yeah, or even if you are at a nine to five right now and you want to be an entrepreneur one day. It's like, how do you treat your co-workers? How do you treat your boss or the work that you do? Are you doing it in excellence? Or are you just, you know, taking your super long lunch break and you know, whatever it might be?

TERRY: Scrolling on the gram.

BIRD: And yeah, so it's just asking yourself those questions. And I love what you said about quiet time not being just checking the box. It's not like, hey guys here are all the things I want and need. Okay bye. Or let me just read this Bible verse real quick and try to meditate on it. But it's like really letting God speak back to you. It's a conversation. And God wants to be involved and included in those details of our life. 100% This is good. Yeah, talk about marriage and business, you know, our hope is that you thrive. You don't pursue business or entrepreneurship or whatever goal or dream you have and miss out on the beauty that's right there in your home, you know in your family. We love talking about marriage and we love saying that we're not experts that we're learning too. But we just know so many marriages that really struggle in general but especially in this area. We just wanted to kind of share our heart. I encourage you to say that first off, please know you are not alone. We joined a marriage life group. I think the same year we launched The League. Our friends, Jalen and Greg, and oh my gosh. I can tell you for almost every couple in there. The biggest takeaway was Oh y'all, y'all deal with that too? 

TERRY: Right. People would be kind of embarrassed to say something and then hear somebody else say it and be like whoa you too? It's amazing that you find that pretty much all groupings of humans together trying to do, lifelong relationships together are going to see certain things. Certain things you feel like, in your shame you would never want to speak up on. It's like, oh, this is a very normal thing. There's nothing wrong. We're not crazy.

BIRD: And, yeah, you're not crazy. Everyone's dealing with stuff. People ask us all the time like y'all have this perfect marriage. Clearly, our marriage is not perfect. We're working on it. We want it to be great, you know for us and for our kids, but it's not perfect,

TERRY: It’s not perfect. But it's beautiful. 

BIRD: Yeah, so don't accept the lie that because you have x y and z issue in your marriage, you know, you have to like live this subpar marriage, or life because of it. Like no. You can work on it like we've worked on it. Like so many couples have worked on it. And we just want you to win. 

TERRY: Just, you know love people well. Love that person next to you well. Don't go talking loud and proud on social media about how awesome your ideas are and how you’ll change the world with it before you change your heart. Change the climate within your home. How you treat your significant other is going to ripple right into how you treat everybody else.

BIRD: Thank y'all so much for listening to the Bird Means Business podcast. You can subscribe on Apple podcasts so that you don't miss any episodes. And you can actually follow us on Spotify, as well. Also, make sure you tell all of your entrepreneur friends about the podcast so that they can get more tips and tricks and, like I always say it's just my way of being the resource I wish I had when we launched The League, back in 2013. I remember I was like googling everything. Like we made so many mistakes. Ooh, y'all. Can I just say real quick? I said I was gonna be vulnerable. I think I told y'all. So episode two, I talked about securing your money team. I talked about how we went through four different accountants until we found Alby, our accountant. And we are getting ready to file our taxes. I don't even know the percentage. I think what we owe in taxes is a third of what we owed recently in taxes. 

TERRY: No, it's like less than that. 

BIRD: It’s crazy. And it's because he got us right. I'm sorry I didn't mean to go off on a tangent.

TERRY: What she's saying there is we did something with the right intentions. And then we were learning over time like, Oh man, this should have been filed this way or this should be done that way. We had to learn. And now on our fourth and most amazing accountant, we're like, oh wow, now we're finally settled into a great spot. 

BIRD: And we're seeing the fruits this year in our taxes, praise Jesus. And so I'm just saying, you don't have to go through that. You don't have to make the same mistakes we made. Tune into the Bird Means Business podcast. I'm going to share as much as I can about what I know, what I've learned. And if you do have any questions about your business, specifically, you can go to birdwilliamsconsulting.com/consultation, and you can book a free 15-minute chat with me, talk to me about what your needs are, and see if there's a way that I can help you,

TERRY: And let me know if you're listening to Bird Means Business podcast because I might anytime I come in this joint and do an interview, shout you out on listeners spotlight. 

BIRD: Oh, yeah!

TERRY: And by the way, today's listener spotlight, I didn't intend to do it this way but now as I think about it, it was a married couple who's in business together. Tim and Faby Broussard.

BIRD: Wow! Yes, that's uncanny.

TERRY: I'm a genius like that. Mic drop moment. 

BIRD: Oh, I want to say this. We didn't say it earlier. Terry the Trainer. His name on Instagram is  @TerrytheTrainer on Instagram, Facebook. That's where you can connect with him, and of course TerrytheTrainer App. 

Alright, this was fun. We might do more of this. I love having him in the studio in this hot guest bedroom closet studio. 

TERRY: I'll invoice you later.

BIRD: Invoice me how,

TERRY: I mean I’m gonna charge you by the minute, so maybe you wrap it up here pretty soon.

BIRD: Bye.