BIRD WILLIAMS: You're listening to Bird Means Business Episode 69.

Hello there, and thank you for tuning into Bird Means Business podcast. I'm your host Bird Williams and I am about to explain to you how hiring an attorney will help you and your brand. You might be thinking, do I really need an attorney when I'm just starting out? Like, what could they even really help me with exactly? I don't know what the process is like. Isn't it super expensive? Yeah, we're going to talk about all of that. 

So, I'm really excited about this episode because I really think it's going to help kind of break down some of the barriers and help you to realize that it might not be as daunting as you think. After what you learn today, at the very least you might think, okay, I kind of get what I need in terms of working with an attorney. Maybe I'll just set up an introductory meeting with a few of them. (And side note. Most attorneys, you can have that introductory meeting for free.) And I'm going to just get an idea of how they could help my brand specifically. Now, this is going to be if you're just starting out or if you're already in business and just kind of missed this step, okay? And if setting up that initial meeting feels intimidating, if you're like, ooooh, I just need a little bit of help, a little bit of motivation to kind of get me past that point. I got you covered with some pretty awesome email templates. 

So I created these email templates a while back with Episode 59. It's called "How to Secure Your Money Team". And when I talk about your money team this is going to be your CPA, which is your accountant, and your attorney. These are two very powerful members of your business team. And it's important that you hire them, that you get them on board, sooner than later. Look, I'm telling you all this from experience. You think you don't need it. You think it's not that big of a deal until it is, and it's a big problem. So, you can go back to Episode 57 to really understand how to secure your money team, your CPA, and your attorney. But for the purposes of this episode, we're gonna just talk about how you can work with your attorney. And I'm gonna have that link in the show notes for you to be able to do simply click and download those free email templates so that you can start the conversation with your attorney. I have a whole email that you can just copy and paste right into your email and send it out to attorneys who you are considering for your brand. 

All right. So you have some options here when it comes to the idea of hiring an attorney. Look, you can do it by yourself. You can say you know what, I'm not going to worry about that right now. I'm gonna just like try to make some money in my business and just kind of ignore it. But I'm telling you, you won't be sleeping peacefully at night because you won't know if you're really protected. You can alternatively hire a professional who will take all the research and all the pressure and all the stress off of you. You can then know I'm in good hands. I'm setting a strong foundation for my business so that I can move forward powerfully, because I know I'm protected. I know that I have things lined up. And now I can really focus on what I'm best at in my business. I don't have to worry about the contract or whether or not I can get screwed down the road, right? So this is why it's important to think about this from the beginning. Okay? 

Again, there are some misconceptions about what it means to work with an attorney that I want to kind of dispel. For example, many entrepreneurs, a number of entrepreneurs that I've worked with, have asked me, "Okay you're telling me I need an attorney. How much do I need to budget monthly for this attorney?" And it is very unlikely that you're going to need to pay an attorney a monthly fee unless of course there's some special case. But let's talk about pricing in just a second. 

Before we get there, I want to back up and talk about the different types of business law attorneys that you might want to hire. So there's kind of like three groups, in my mind. First, there are like smaller firms, typically just one attorney. Or maybe there's a few in a group, and they focus on something specific. They do something specific like trademark attorney, or they help you with your business formation or whatever it might be. The next here are kind of like middle-market firms. And these are legal firms that have multiple attorneys in multiple locations, and they're more of a full-service business law firm. And then you have your really big firms, like the huge firms that work with the big corporations, right? So I want you to understand what those three different tiers kind of look like. In my business. I've mostly worked with the smaller firms, just the individual attorneys. And there have been some times where we've worked with a middle, we've considered working with a middle-market, I should say, firm that's more full service. Because if you think about it, it's kind of nice to know that if you are on with a firm that is able to kind of help you in many different areas of your business and not just one area of your business. That can be really helpful as well to kind of just have one place that you're going for all of your legal needs, as opposed to kind of using an individual attorney for this and then another individual attorney for that if that makes sense. 

So with that in mind, let's talk about pricing. So it's going to of course range depending on the scope of work, how much work you want this attorney to help you with, and the type of attorney that you're working with. So typically an attorney is going to quote you based on their hourly rate. You're going to come to them and you're going to say, hey, I need help setting up X, Y, and Z. And they're gonna say, okay, my hourly rate is this, and I expect that it'll take me about this amount of time to complete all this work. And that's how they're going to base the fee structure, right? Now, there could be times where they require a retainer. And this is when they especially expect for you to have ongoing work and needs and projects. Meaning, it's still based on their hourly rate. But you're going to pay a retainer amount. It might be $2,000, $2,500. Whatever it is. Let's say it's $2,500. You're gonna give them $2,500. And they are going to do what you need, that X, Y, & Z - draft those documents, negotiate something for you, help you with your business formation, whatever it might be. And then, as new projects come on over time, you're going to continue to take from that retainer that you pay them. So let's say, for example, the amount of work you need costs $1,500, but the retainer is $2,500. You're going to give them the $2,500 and they'll finish that initial work. And then they'll come in and say, you'll come in like maybe a few months later and say I actually need help with this or I need this drafted or this help negotiating here, and that will just continue to feed off of that retainer. And then once that retainer is out, you would pay another retainer amount of $2,500, and you kind of keep going that way. Some attorneys do work that way. Most of the attorneys that I've worked with are basing it on an hourly rate so they're saying, okay, this is the work you need done. This is how much time I think it'll take us. And this is how much it's going to be. And you will pay that upfront. Or you'll pay maybe half upfront and half the end. It just depends on how the attorney works. 

Now, you might be asking, what kind of money are we talking here? So I'll give you the range. I've been in business for eight years. We have worked with attorneys that have quoted us as low as $275 and as high as $500 an hour. So as you're looking for attorneys, that's kind of a range that you can think of. It could of course be lower or higher. Make sure you understand you're not just looking for the cheapest attorney, right? Of course, money is a consideration. But you're also going to pay for what you get. 

And I mentioned that you're going to come to this attorney and say, I need help with X, Y, and Z. But some of you might be thinking, I don't know what I need help with. Well, in this episode I'm going to actually break down how you're going to work with your attorney and kind of different stages, which will help. But a lot of times you're going to an attorney and you're saying, "Look, this is my business. This is how I make money in my business. These are the clients that I'm serving. These are the different products or services I'm going to offer." And they're going to give you the guidance around which documents you need, which contracts you need. And that's the beauty of having a professional who again has had experience in your industry and knows what you need to look out for, and can guide you accordingly. Okay? 

So you want to make sure that this attorney is someone who has experience in your specific business type or business industry. And also has client testimonials. You might want to reach out to some of their clients and ask about what their experience was like. So make sure that you really vet an attorney that's going to work best for your brand. 

So your attorney will help your business in so many ways. I'm going to give you a lot of examples. And I want to say that, typically there's this initial bulk of documents that they're going to help you draft when you first start out, right? And then after that initial work, they're just really there for advice or reviewing contracts that you might receive from others. Or negotiating contracts, like for example if you have a brick and mortar business and you're looking to negotiate a lease agreement. You're not going to do that on your own. You're going to get with an attorney who's going to help you negotiate that for sure. It's a very big deal that you work with an attorney on that. And so let me give you some examples of the documents in both of these stages, kind of that initial stage, as well as what happens after my business is initially set up, okay? 

So stage one. Now like I said in the beginning there's typically a bulk of work. And this is all going to depend on what your business type is and what your specific needs are. But one thing is business formation. So this is where you kind of legitimize your business and you take it from a sole proprietorship or partnership to either an LLC or an S Corp or a C Corp. Those are the most common types. So let's say you have, you start selling jewelry, and you don't do anything. You're just selling jewelry and you're making money from this jewelry, right? You're automatically going to be considered a sole proprietorship. But if you and your husband are working in this jewelry business together or you and your sister or a friend. Then you're automatically going to be considered a partnership because you've not done anything in terms of establishing an entity. But there's a lot of risk with that. Meaning, if someone tries to sue you for any reason for the jewelry you made or that they bought from you, they can come after your personal assets. They can come after your car, your house, your investment accounts, right? And so to protect that, to make it such that you and your business are two separate entities, you can form an LLC, or you can become an S corp or a C Corp. And we're not going to get into the details of that. We actually talked a lot about LLCs and trademarks in Episode 51 with Soluto Uba. He is an attorney and an awesome attorney. So you can go back to that episode if you want to really understand more about LLCs. That's a more typical structure for new business owners. But that is one thing that your attorney can help you establish. 

I'll be honest, you can go online and just Google LLC document and your state. You know, you can list your actual state. And it'll pull up a form. And you can seem like, I can just fill this out myself. And you can, right? But there are certain terms, there are certain questions that are asked on this form, that if you answer wrong, it could be hard later on to fix and change. You got to be careful with a registered agent you use. You have to be careful with listing it as member-managed or manager-managed. This is for Texas LLCs. So there are things that you want to have an attorney who knows what they're doing, look at and say okay let me guide you. And you might have some who will just really guide you and give you the advice you need. And others who will kind of include it in this package of all the different work that you need them to do initially, okay? 

So one way that an attorney can work with you, is with your business formation. Kind of in line with this as your operating agreement and other formation documents. So you could have an LLC, for example. But you don't want it to just be a paper LLC, meaning you've done the paperwork and that's it. You want it to actually be a performing LLC, and do what you need to do to really legitimize your business as a separate entity from you. One example of that is having a separate business bank account, you can't form an LLC, and say, I'm separate from my business and so if someone tries to sue my business, they can't come and sue me. Okay, good we're straight. But then have your business funds and your personal funds commingled because that's not an example of you and your business being two completely different entities. So things like that will allow your LLC to actually be performing, meaning if you were to actually get sued, a judge would say yes you're two separate entities and you're not one. 

Another example of that is an operating agreement. It's one of the more typical formation documents. And this is whether you have partners or not, I used to think that if you're a solopreneur, it's just you, you don't need an operating agreement because it's just you. That is not the case. You need to have an operating agreement that says how the business will function, what the ownership structure looks like, what happens if something happens to you as the owner, even if you're a solopreneur. I know in the operating agreement that Terry and I have for The League, our gym business, it says what's going to happen if we get divorced or something happens with our relationship, right? Really awkward things to talk about. But you gotta really understand what's going to happen to the business in those scenarios. 

So, an operating agreement is something that your attorney could draft. Another one is your investor agreement. So, I cannot remember the episode number. I think it might be Episode 8. I talk about raising funding for your business. And I talk in that episode in detail about an investor agreement, and how all that will the entire process that you would go through. But you're going to want to make sure that anyone who gives you your money, even if it's your mama. You want to have a written agreement with them that outlines exactly what it is that you're going to be receiving, exactly what they're going to be getting back, even if it's a gift. Let's say your mom wants to give you $5,000 to start your business. You're going to need something in writing that says she gave you $5,000, and she does not expect any money in return. Right? But obviously, that's not typically the case. Typically if you're going to have investors, they're going to expect maybe an interest payment that's paid annually. There's so many different ways to think about an investor situation. So again you want to go back to that episode on how to raise funding for your business to learn more. There's so much detail in that episode on that. But that's another way that an attorney will help you in the very beginning, understanding, actually drafting those documents for you so that you can then go out in a very legitimate way to your investors with like, hey, this is the agreement. 

Another example is your board of advisors or your board of directors agreements. The difference between the board of directors and the board of advisors. Advisors just advise. So directors tend to have a controlling stake. They can begin to hire or fire the CEO. They vote on things. That's the board of directors. But a board of advisors is more of just like people who maybe are in your industry who are people you look up to, people who are really invested in your brand, who want to just be there to support you, whether that's giving you advice. But also maybe promoting your brand. So you can be very strategic with the board of advisors that you use in your business. And they're typically not paid, right? So if you have a board of advisors or a board of directors, you're going to need to have an actual agreement with them that outlines exactly what that relationship is like, what both parties should expect, how often you'll meet with them, and on and on. 

Another contract that your attorney can help you draft is an independent contractor agreement or an employee agreement. There's a difference between an independent contractor and an employee. Again, I don't have time to get into all of this stuff. It's hard for me because I want to share so much more, but this episode would be forever long. But there are some questions you need to ask yourself around whether or not the people who help you in your business, your team, whether they're employees or independent contractors. And you don't want to get that wrong because the IRS will find you. And I actually have a friend whose business was taken down because he accidentally improperly classified his workers as independent contractors when they were indeed employees. So, in my program Prove It Plan, which is my signature business plan development program, I really go into detail about what those questions are, what you should consider. I give examples and all of that. And I go into more detail on the board of advisors and all this stuff. But again, I don't have time in this short episode. But whether you have independent contractors or employees, your lawyer will help you understand that and will help you draft those documents as well. 

Of course, if you work with clients in some kind of service based arrangement, you would have a client engagement agreement that an attorney would help you draft. There might be other types of contracts around the people you work with who pay you money, that you want to consider. Maybe like a membership agreement, for example. If you have a business that has a lot of high liability, like a gym, like we have with The League. You might have a liability waiver, your attorney will help you draft that.

And then there are several different types of things you want to have on your website like your terms of service or terms and conditions. You may have seen that on someone's website. Or your privacy policy or disclaimer your GDPR. These are types of things that you want to have on your website that people can click and read how are you sharing their information, what are they agreeing to as they're on your site. That's required by law. And it, of course, all those things I named disclaimer privacy policy, GDPR depends on the type of business that you have. So you're going to go to your attorney again and say, "this is what I'm doing. This is how I'm making money. This is who I'm serving." And they'll tell you okay yes you need this and you need this and you need that, and they will help you draft those as well. 

So those are just some examples. This is not an exhaustive list. There's so many different types of contracts your attorney can help you draft. But I'm hoping that as I lay this out you begin to see oh wow, yeah, I could totally use an attorney and it could really help set my business up and the foundation up strong. Okay? 

So those are typically the ones, based on your business, this is what you need. An attorney can say. okay, you need your business formation and operating agreement. Maybe there's some other formation documents. You're going to have investors so you need an investor agreement. You don't want to have a board of advisors. That's fine, we can skip that. They're going to go through this process of saying what you need and you can decide on that. And you can even go to them after listening to this episode and say, "This is what I think I need. Am I missing anything?" Right? And they're going to say okay, this is how much time I think it'll take for all of this and this is our hourly rate and this is how much we're going to charge you. Or of course, if you feel like you're going to have a long-term ongoing relationship with them, kind of, for what I'm about to name next in stage two. Then they might ask you to do the retainer option. 

So let's go into stage two. What happens after that initial setup. Now your business is launched and you're going. And you're moving and shaking and things are happening. Let's say that you decide to open a physical location, and you need to negotiate a lease agreement. If you're going to be working, you know, getting into having a landlord, having a physical space, you don't want to go through that process alone. And big no, you don't want to just go through that process with just a realtor. So, a realtor is going to be great to help you find a space and they're going to help you with some of those negotiations, but they're not a lawyer. Or in most cases, they're not, unless you of course find a realtor who is a lawyer. But if they're not a lawyer, they're going to tell you like hey, you're going to want your attorney to review this lease agreement before you sign it. Because if they're not an attorney, they don't want to have that on them when that's not what their specialty is, right? So you're going to want to make sure you work with an attorney for that. That is super important because typically a lease agreement can be like five years right? And a lot of times for new entrepreneurs, you're putting up a personal guarantee. If you don't have a proven track record in your business, the landlord might say, "I don't know if this business is going to work and if you're going to be able to pay me. So I'm going to make you have a personal guarantee meaning I'm going to ensure that you are going to pay me with your personal assets if something were to happen." So, again, it's important that you don't just read this yourself or assume it's not a big deal. It's a huge deal. 

So a lease agreement or even a purchase agreement. And I'm not going to remember, I'm sorry, let me just say real quick, a purchase agreement is if you're actually buying a space and not leasing it. It's an even bigger deal. So you certainly want to have an attorney help you with a purchase agreement. But going back to the episode. I think it's Episode 15. And it's like commercial lease considerations. And there's a whole checklist that goes with it and everything. It's a really great episode that goes into detail on what to consider when you are at that place where you're like, I'm looking to lease a building. Like how you work with your attorney. What you should actually consider. Like terms that are in the actual lease agreement that you might want to understand. It's a really great episode for that one. So I think it's Episode 15, commercial lease considerations. Whatever it is, the correct link, I'll make sure to have it in the show notes so that you can just click the link and go right to the episode. Okay? 

Another thing that your attorney can help you with, kind of in this second stage after all those initial documents are set up, is any kind of brand partnership agreement. I've been working with more influencers lately, and they're doing a lot around brand partnerships. And again you don't want to navigate this yourself. You might be surprised at how much more money you could get, especially if you're working with an attorney who works with other influencers and who knows what the going rate is. You might not know on your own. But regardless, you don't want to sign on the dotted line, not knowing what you're signing, right? So you want to make sure that if you have any kind of brand partnership agreement, you're putting that by an attorney. 

Also, a vendor agreement. There are vendors you're working with and, you know, you think, Oh, I just gotta sign this because I want to be able to work with this company. No. You're going to want to make sure you actually read it and have your attorney review it as well. And then they're going to in the second stage, just help you with any ongoing review of new contracts that might come up from wherever they might come. And then also just general advice. You might be making a big business move, or you might be really shifting or pivoting your business. And you need to understand these contracts that you helped me draft initially. There's anything to be changed or tweaks based on this big decision I'm making, and so on and so forth. 

Again, your money team, your lawyer, your attorney, and your CPA, those two members of your money team are so incredibly important. And they will be kind of like a big part of your team as you grow your business. So it's important that you just go ahead and get comfortable with all of this right now. And then there's this other time that you might need an attorney, and if you need representation in a lawsuit. I thank God that this has never happened to me in any of my businesses. But I've had friends who've been sued or who have been audited by the IRS or have to go through something like that where they're in and out of court. And of course, you're going to have an attorney work with you in that realm as well. So I wanted to just really lay out all those different examples that you can, someone who maybe was like, yeah, I don't really know if I need an attorney. You can maybe think, okay, yeah, actually I really do and I really do want to make sure that I cover myself, right? 

Now one last thing I want you to consider in terms of hiring an attorney is to have developed a business plan first. And this is why. You don't want to say okay, I need an attorney. And I'm going to go and I'm going to send out these emails. I'm gonna use Bird's template. I send out my email to these attorneys sort of vetting different attorneys and meeting. Guess what, they're going to ask you questions. They're going to ask you about your business, what you're trying to do. And if you haven't gone through the process of developing a business plan, one of two things will happen. You will either have no real clue as to what to tell them, so you're kind of just like maybe making things up. Or you just say I don't know, in which case they're gonna say, okay, well, are you really serious? And they're either going to kind of wonder like, do I really want to work with this person or the client. Or you're going to think you have an idea of what you need, and you're going to go and you're going to say, oh I need this and I need that and I need this, right? But then once you actually go through the process of developing a business plan or launch your business and start working through your business. You're going to realize, oh my goodness, that's not what I needed, or I totally, I had no idea that I needed investment capital and now I do. Or whatever it might be. And you're gonna have to go back to your attorney and say, "We're gonna need to tweak the contract because I thought I was going to work with my clients in this capacity. But it's actually going to look a little bit different and I know we need to add a disclaimer or it's gonna be a completely different scope of work. And so, that's gonna what? Cost you more time and more money because you're going to have to go back and either pay them more based on their hourly rate or chip off more of that retainer. So you want to have gone through the process of developing a business plan so that you have a holistic idea of what you're aiming to do in your brand, and with your business so that you can go confidently to an attorney and say, this is what I'm trying to do. 

So right now as I'm recording this episode, the doors to Prove It Plan are closed. Enrollment is not open. But I'm actually planning on opening it soon. So, if you want to be the first to know. If you're interested in learning more about why you need a business plan or how you would use it or what the steps are to developing it. You can go to birdwilliams.com/proveitplan, and just sign up for the waitlist so that once I do open enrollment again, you will be the first to know. And like I said, my program goes into a lot more detail with these things that I can't go into as much detail in a short podcast episode. 

So I hope that now that we've broken down why an attorney is important, what the different types are, what the pricing looks like, and what are some examples of documents they can help you draft and negotiate and ways that you can really work with an attorney that you hire. I hope that it's a little less daunting to you and that you feel more confident right? I want you to keep this momentum going by at least downloading your free email template. So you can easily copy my template and paste it into your email and then just tweak it for your needs. This is going to really help get the ball rolling on protecting yourself and your brand. 

And as always, thank you so much for tuning into Bird Means Business podcast, for subscribing on Apple Podcasts, and for following us on Spotify. Make sure you tell every entrepreneur you know about this episode so that they can learn how hiring an attorney will help them in their brand too. 

Talk to y'all next week.