BIRD WILLIAMS: You're listening to Bird Means Business Episode 83. 

Hello, hello! And thank you for tuning into Bird Means Business podcast. I am your host, Bird Williams, and I'm pumped that you're here investing not only in your business but also in your marriage by tuning in to this episode. You know, we sometimes try to pretend like we can completely isolate our businesses away from our personal lives. But that's just not the case. While we should certainly have healthy boundaries, they both affect each other right? How we decide to work inside of our businesses will absolutely impact our personal lives. In the same way that the health of our marriages will affect our businesses. Whether one or both partners are in the entrepreneurial lane. So our guests today are O. L. and Sway Buckley of Marriedpreneur Life and you're going to hear them break down the three types of marriedpreneurs and unique challenges that each face. And y'all, it's gonna be good. 

Let me tell you a bit about this power couple. So O. L. and Sway Buckley are cofounders of Marriedpreneur Life Institute and the host of the Marriedpreneur Life podcast, where they help faith-based marriedpreneurs create momentum in life and in business. As creators of the Marriedpreneur Operating System, couples come to them to sync high-level systems with laser clear strategies to launch and grow their legacy purposefully and profitably. Now their clientele ranges from startups to established married couples seeking to streamline their focus for the greatest ROI in business and marriage. The Buckley's work has been featured in the WeddingWire, Huffington Post, BET, and more. They've known each other for nearly 20 years. And this year will make 12 years of marriage. 

My husband Terry and I have learned so much from them over the years just taking in their content. They are truly a power couple. And you are going to learn so much in this conversation. 

Now, before we dive into the episode, I do also want to mention, since I'm getting this question a lot. I am back from maternity leave. And side note, I put maternity leave in air quotes. Because the truth is, as an entrepreneur, it's really hard to completely shut off work for weeks, especially when you have multiple businesses and some that are very young. But yes, I am back to taking one-on-one clients through strategy sessions. And if you're looking for ways to work with me, you can go to birdwilliams.com/workwithme. I'll also say that I really enjoyed the time of less work as we welcomed baby girl, Rhys. And it's also felt great to gradually build work back into my daily routine as I've listened to my body and my spirit on what feels best. So I'm glad to be back and I hope to connect with you soon. Alright, let's jump into the episode. 

O. L. and Sway, I'm so glad to have you on the show. Thank you for joining us. 

SWAY BUCKLEY: Thank you for having us.

O.L. BUCKLEY: Thank you for having us. So glad to be here. 

BIRD: Yes, Terry, my husband, and I have been inspired by you two. Your content is just always so on point. Y'all see me commenting on all your posts like, "Yes!" So good and so many people need to know all of it. So I'm just really excited about all the gold that you'll share with my listeners. I know a lot of my audience are either currently working together in business or planning on launching a business.  And they're like, how do I do this with my spouse? So I'm excited to get into some really great, really good, juicy questions in our interview today. But just for starters, tell us a little bit about your journey. Like how did you get into serving this community? Why did you choose marriedpreneurs?

SWAY: Oh, I think the question is, well, I guess the statement would be they actually chose us.

O. L.: It was really more of a response to we could just say market demand. And as it persisted, we just after some time of resisting and saying no, no, no, no, no. It just became to a point where it was clear. All right, this is something that we're definitely called to do right now. And we're going to do it. And interestingly enough, we did not ourselves start off as Marriedpreneur. At least. Well, let me back up. Not in the way that most people would think. Let me say it that way. Because at the time, I was working a nine to five. And of course, Sway had been an entrepreneur since her teen years. So that really, and even upon us getting married, that was how we started out in this journey. And so that has some bearing here, but I'll let her unpack that a little.

SWAY: Yeah, I mean, you pretty much wrapped that up. So like when people started asking, actually it was some friends of ours who started asking us for help. And we were like, well, what kind of help? We don't understand. Like, what's your need? And so whatever it was, we were like, we don't even do that. They were like, y'all can just come together. Like, because we have individual businesses. I have a staffing firm, and then a consultancy. Primarily, I've worked with a lot of creative women, helping them to build multiple revenue streams with their craft. And so with his background in wealth management, and banking and investing, you know, a lot of the couples or like a spouse would come, they would bring their spouse and I'm like, well, could you both come together? And can you like, do something together? And we were like, no, we don't do that. We're like two separate LLCs. It's like, two different EINs. And we don't do that. Like, whatever you're asking for is no, we don't do it. But then they were just really persistent. So like, a year or so went by and we're like maybe this is God saying something. Or maybe we need to listen. And so we're like, we don't even know what you're asking for. But the more clarity that we got on what the need was because we didn't know there was such a great need as far as just helping couples to work together, build businesses, legacies together, as well as protecting their marriage along the way. Like all the things, right? So we were like, okay, we'll just start with this one couple. And we just did some VIP days with them. And we thought that was it. But then here we are, you know. They started telling their friends about it. And then other folks started coming. We're like, maybe we should really look at this as a serious thing. I don't know. So that's what we started doing.

BIRD: Wow, I love how you're talking to a really crucial trait that you have to have as an entrepreneur. And that is to be adaptable. That is to listen to the market and say, okay, this is something people want. How can I serve them? And even though it might look different than what you've set out. And this is just for anyone launching a business. You don't want to just try to shove down people's throats what you think they need. Listen to what they're asking. And then make your programs and services based around that. 

SWAY: Makes it so much easier. Oh, my goodness. It just makes it easy peasy to meet people where they are once you listen to them.

BIRD: Yeah, I have a question. Because I know that folks have asked Terry and I to kind of speak to married stuff. And we've been married for, it'll be nine years in September. But I always hesitate or I feel like that need to be like, just FYI. We Are not perfect. And we don't get all of this right. And we're not special. We don't know all the things. Anything you had to push through when it came to like, okay, we're going to be representing like marriage, and how to do this and how to navigate this. Did you have to work through any of that?

O.L.: I think the main thing probably that we would have to push through, be mindful of it. I think marriage in and of itself, helps us to remember this. And that is to do this, while we may have expertise around systems, we need to remain humble, even in how we approach the marketplace to just your very point. Don't want to paint the picture as though we got this whole thing figured out. And then you know, set our own selves up for disappointment and others too.  

BIRD: Yes.

SWAY: You know, that's a funny question that you asked because I never looked at it as oh, we're an example for other marriages. I never have looked at ... I'm just like, we're just us. We're just bringing you behind the scenes and there's no air, you know. It is what it is. And we speak truth. And I've never looked at it like that. But you know, something that I think we've always been very clear on is like, we're not marriage coaches. Or sometimes people would ask us, can you all coach us in our marriage? We don't, we're not licensed to. We don't do that. Like, we are serious about that, you know, We're like, we can send you to some licensed counselors. Like they will help you. They are degreed and they are skilled, you know, in this area. So I don't think I've ever really looked at it as marriage, as a model. But I definitely see it because we are working with married entrepreneurs. But I just always thought that that, you know, we just put a spotlight on our lives, but not necessarily as experts at marriage. You know what I mean? 

BIRD: Yeah, I love it. That's how, you know, we try to come across too. But there's so many times where people will put us on a pedestal or try to say like, you have this perfect marriage. It's like, wait a, wait a, wait a, wait a, wait a minute. We're learning from people like you. And we go to counseling and all of that. I love that. I just wanted to check in on that. 

So what are some of the biggest challenges that y'all see marriedpreneurs face? And I ask this question, because again, I know there's people that are tuned in who are like, I don't know if I should go into this with my spouse. I mean, so often I have people tell me, how in the world do you work with your husband? You know how do y'all make this work? So just as they're trying to kind of approach it and figure out how to navigate it or make decisions around you know, how to go into business together. What are some of the biggest challenges you see marriedpreneurs face? And then we can talk about some practical tips and strategies to kind of overcome some of those.

SWAY: Yeah, that's a great question. I can start us off with that one. First of all, just to be clear, I think it's important that we define what marriedpreneurs are. They're just not just but they are. It's a married couple, who where one or both, is on some level of entrepreneurship and business. We believe that if one of you is called to entrepreneurship, then the family is called to entrepreneurship. So that right there, because it's a joint calling. And that doesn't mean it's gonna look the same, right? That doesn't mean that both are in entrepreneurship. But it does, entrepreneurship does impact the marriage and the family. 

Okay. Now, we've discovered over the years that there are three primary types of married entrepreneurs or marriedpreneurs. Marriedpreneur types. 

So the first one is spousalpreneurs. And that is where one spouse in the marriage is working the nine to five, while the other spouse is building the business. And then we have the marriedpreneur type that is the indiepreneurs. And that's where both spouses are building individual businesses, individually on different businesses. And then thirdly, we have the couplepreneurs. And that's where, as a couple, they are building together the same business. And so you can find yourself in a couple of those types or a combination of those types. Right now, we are both indie and couplepreneurs. But we started off as spousalpreneurs when we got married, right? So those are the three types.

O.L.: So with those, there are three, or there's our common challenge that usually can be associated with each distinct marriedpreneur type. So with regards to say, spousalpreneurs, one working nine to five. The other is the lead on the business or driving the business. The challenge, there is a term or a tone we've associated with it called running mates. And running mates, if you think you know, in a campaign, a political campaign, since somebody's last name is bigger, or top billing over somebody else's last name. And that's just really a picture to say, sometimes the entrepreneur can be so passionate. And the spouse who's working the nine to five can feel a little lost in the shuffle. They don't necessarily know how they can contribute value. They don't really understand where their role or place, or how they may fit in the context of that entrepreneurial journey of their spouse. So they can kind of feel like a tag-along or a running mate in that sense. 

The second one is with regards to the indiepreneur. Both of you are running separate businesses, not doing it together. You have individual businesses. Well, the challenge there is that you can become roommates. And so much of the marriage is basically like you're just splitting the bills down the middle. Maybe you get together at dinner time. And maybe you start to share some, you know, swap war stories and what happened to me today or, or happened to you today. And aw man, this really happened, that really happened. And you can maybe sort of take on a quasi consultant role for each other. But there's no real sense of vibrancy in your marriage and intimacy, apart from business. So you can feel like roommates. 

And then third, and finally, with regards to the couplepreneurs, both of you working in the same business together. You can take on what we call cellmates. And this is where the business has your marriage on lockdown. And there's the danger. Because you're spending so much time together. And you're working on the same initiative, building the same legacy. There's this subtle assumption that because we have proximity, that we have intimacy. And the reality is, is that that's not the case, either. And so even when you have date nights, they just become business meetings 2.0. And so the business is literally consuming and enveloping every aspect of your marriage to where the marriage and the business are synonymous and there's no delineation.

BIRD: Whew! Those all are so good. It's so hard. So Terry and I, like y'all, are both couplepreneurs and indiepreneurs. And I love your breakdown of the three types. It's brilliant, and it's so good. And we have definitely been in that cellmate. And what was the other one? 

O.L.: Roommate. 

BIRD: Roommate phase. It's definitely felt like that. I remember, and it's really probably more of my fault. I don't know if y'all find that one of the spouses tends to be more of the workaholic, and the other tends to prioritize rest. I know that when I talk to other marriedpreneurs that's the case. But I was definitely the workaholic. And I would just want to talk about business all the time. It'd be like at night before we go to sleep over dinner. Especially before kids, it was just constant. And he's like, this is just not okay. Like you have to have to have some kind of separation, but I'm like making it all urgent in my head even though it's not urgent. You know, we can do that? I don't know if y'all do that. But it's like this is not urgent, but I'm making it urgent. And for us, what we did was we decided to have partner meetings. This was also something that Terry pushed back against and it was like pulling teeth. Like having a weekly meeting to him was like, why? Why do we have to do it? But I was like, If you don't want there to be the business talk, we can have it in this like, you know, time block. And I mean, that was a huge game-changer for us. So that's so good. I love that breakdown.

SWAY: Yeah, it makes a huge difference when you can identify like, oh, that's who we are. That's what we are, okay. That's normal? Oh! Ooooohhh!! Got it!

BIRD: Exactly. So true. And it is so true that I love what you said in the beginning about if one of the spouses is an entrepreneur, it's like the whole family is signing up for it. Because it affects your kids, it affects the entire family. So that is definitely something to think about. So when it comes to some of the practical tips to kind of overcome the challenges in those three buckets, how would y'all approach that?

SWAY: Yeah, well, I would say each of them are very unique in that. We can talk about that. And then we can give like an overview, I think for all three of them. But I can start with the spousalpreneur piece. Well,  actually do you want to start with that piece? Because we started off as spousalpreneurs when we got married. Right. And what was something that we did? Well, even though we were spousalpreneurs, he was very, he was involved. I guess that would be a part. 

O.L.: Yeah. I mean, I lent whatever competencies I had to support her business. And so at the time, I was working in media, so it was a lot of video editing, and post-production-type things. And so in doing that, I was thinking I was just really supporting. And actually, we were doing that before we got married. Yeah, I was doing that years before we got married. So I was already working in her business in effect. And so with doing that, I did have some thoughts like this seems to be like almost like a runaway train. But I was like, okay, we need to slow this thing down a little bit because I could see how it could have been problematic even years prior to us getting married. But it was, and I apologize if I'm not being specific to the question. It was a joy. But I also recognized that there was gonna have to be some controls. But the reality is, I didn't know how to think about what those controls would be or even implement those. Now, my wife being the systematic person that she is, she came up with a system for it and really helped us to really manage and help to, how do I want to say it?  Bridle our passion, I guess I'm not sure.

SWAY: Yeah. And I would say right now because we didn't know then what we know now. Right? So as spousalpreneurs, who are spousalpreneurs now, I would definitely say some level of involvement, where it really depends, it really depends on the makeup of the couple. Right? It really, really depends on what that looks like. Because it can go from one end to the other. But I think it's still important to know that the spouse who is not in the business, to understand how the business plays a role in their legacy building. Right? So like, what does this, how does this, what are we doing here? I know you're the face of the business. But what are we doing here? 

O.L.: What are we doing this for, ultimately? 

SWAY: Yeah, what is this? Where are we going with this? Right? Just having those kinds of conversations. I think that's important, regardless of how involved or not. I think that's important to have clarity. As indiepreneurs, and then the spouse who's working the business and spousalpreneurs to be mindful to make sure that there was really marriage time and not bringing in the conversation of work during those marriage specific, marriage conversations. You know, I think that's important. 

But then the indiepreneurs are also making sure likewise, that there is time for them to talk about them, outside of, you know, the all-consuming businesses that they are building and working on. So making that a priority. But then that would also be the same thing for the couplepreneurs. It's just, it's different. Because they're in it together, right? Like they get it. They're like, "Oh, did you do that? Did you send that email off? Or did you talk to such and such?" It's that type of conversation where maybe not so much in the indie, definitely not necessarily in the spousal. but definitely in the couplepreneur making sure that that they are the boundaries are very clear, right. What's something that we do? We try to do it when we have our morning meetings is to say to ask ourselves, each other rather, okay, what time are we stopping today? Right. And so that helps us like, oh, right. 

O.L.: Yeah, cuz once you've said it to each other, now there's this built-in accountability center. 

SWAY: Oh you said five o'clock? Okay, guess what? At five o'clock, he's like, okay, you know, sometimes like, okay, give me five more minutes. I'm like, bet. Great. I love it. Because I need it. You know? Or he's like, are you ready? And I'm like, okay, I'm almost ready. You know. So just having that level of accountability is key. 

Now, something that I would say for all three of the types would be having you mentioned the weekly meetings. So we call them legacy meetings. So having the weekly legacy meetings. And that really, for us is going over it is a micro piece of a macro picture of like our plan, let's say for the year. And so we break that down monthly, or quarterly, monthly, weekly. And then so we say okay, weekly. Then we look at the annual. And the annual looks like okay, what are our marriage goals? That's what we always start with. It's so easy to start with business, right? But we're like, what are our marriage goals for this month? Are we on track? We have something either that we're gonna plan to do. Or it could be reading a devotional together. It could be going to a new experience that we're doing together in our marriage. And then we have the business. Okay, what's going on in our businesses since we have different businesses as well as one together. And then look at like what, you know, are we on track? And so then we also break that weekly one down each day. We try to do that in about 10 minutes each morning. And so regardless if you're, you know, spousal-, indie-, or couple- preneurs, I think just having a touchpoint each day. We were doing this as spousalpreneurs. We didn't know to call it this. But when he was driving off to the bank, getting ready to go through traffic or in traffic, and then we will be on the phone doing our little meetings, right. And so it'll just be kind of in and out. But it gave us the touchpoint. It wasn't necessarily about my business. But it was about like, what are we doing? We'd pray together.

O.L.: It's about our life.

BIRD: Yeah. Oh, that's so good. And framing it as legacy I think helps to really hone in like you said, what you're doing this for. And, you know, we've never been spousalpreneurs. But even as indiepreneurs, you know, so Terry and  I started off with The League, our gym business here in Houston. We launched it back in 2013. I mean, he was working as an instructor for all the shifts. I was working at the front desk for all the shifts. I think I was 25. He was 27. We were babies. And we were able to just go in and go ham. I remember 2014 was one of the busiest times in our life. So much so that I was like, we will never do this again. We were like crazy, crazy busy. It was out of control. But the business grew and took off so fast. We launched a second location in 2015. And on and on. But it wasn't until 2019 that we decided, at this point, The League was a well-oiled machine. We weren't having to spend as much time there. We had instructors. We had like 12 people on staff. And we decided we had other interests too so we wanted to launch these other businesses. I launched Bird Williams, my strategy firm. And he launched Terry the Trainer brand. And that was the first time that we were now indiepreneurs. I wish we would have had that, you know, that framework to kind of understand what the different challenges might be. And it was different because it was like now when he's spending time on his brand, or I'm spending time on my brand, it kind of felt like it became that your brand and my brand. And you know what's bringing in what?  And really, it's not so much about the money. It's more about the time commitment. And now we have kids. So it felt even more strained. And so I think it's really important, to be honest about where you are and how you feel as you're navigating the journey as things might change. Because that one was a tough one for us. It was like, whoa, wait a minute, we're on the same team, right? Let's bring this back to what we're really doing and how this benefits the whole, right? 

SWAY: Those meetings, man. They have, I mean, really helped our marriage. And actually, that's how it started when he left the bank. And we knew he wasn't supposed to be in a nine to five at that point. But we're like, okay, Lord, what's next? And so we were trying to figure out what to do. Meanwhile, you know, I'm running my business, and I started taking on more clients. I'm like, okay, well, I just, you know, us women, we like security. I'm like, I just need to make sure everything is good, while he was trying to figure things out. And so I didn't know what to say to him to find out like, what are you doing? I didn't want to say that. But I needed to know, what are you doing? And so I just decided how can I talk to him without sounding like this nagging wife? And so that's when this idea came, literally a download from heaven. Like, talk to him. Don't use the word accountability. Use check-ins. So we started calling them check-ins. We're just having check-ins. And so, it was a little rough at first because he was like, why do we have to do this? Well, I can tell you what's going on with me. And then you can tell me what's going on with you. Right? And so he's like, all right, all right. And so that's how it started. And then I mean, over time, it's gotten to the point where now he's like, you ready to meet? You ready? Let's go. We do it at 6:45 each morning. That's the goal. Sometimes we meet a little later. But it's been a transition through the seasons. But it's been the thing that's been steady and has really kept us connected, no matter what we've been building, launching, or pivoting from or to. It's really kept us in a place where we're on the same page.

O.L.: Let me add to that. The standout for me advantage of the legacy meetings is that it gives you a touchpoint for thinking, the act of thinking about your marriage and where it's going. And what to think about. So because in our legacy meetings, it's everything from the business, our business together, our business individually. And then everything about our home, and even about our marriage. So when we have those meetings, it gives us individually the opportunity to think because we're thinking about the meeting. And because we're thinking, there's this advantage of foresight. And so it also gives you the opportunity to be introspective. So you can early on say, you know what, this trajectory is not working for me. Or this cadence or pace is not really working for me. Or this is really working for me. Let's keep this. But sometimes when we don't have those structured static meetings, however frequent they need to be. What happens is, is that we can think something in the moment, but it's usually emotionally prompted. Rather than, oh, we're meeting tomorrow, and you know what I was thinking about our meeting tomorrow. 

SWAY: Yeah, yeah.

BIRD: Oh, that's so good. That just reminded me of a marriage tool we learned in the very beginning of our marriage, which is, you know, instead of bringing up, like, when you get frustrated, and you're heated, and you want to talk about it right then. Sometimes it's good to be like, how about we have a conversation about this on Friday night? You know what I mean?  Like, let's give us some time to process and think through this. The going back to the benefit of that foresight, and not having to have a really hard discussion when you're already upset. You're able to clearly process and, and come to, again, as a team, as opposed to as like, as if you're like, against each other, right? Because you're not against each other. You're one team. 

That's beautiful. I love that so much. Those meetings. What do you call them? Your legacy meeting? 

SWAY: Legacy meetings. Yeah.

SWAY: You have to have parameters where both parties are willing, you know, with those to follow that type of agenda. And I think it helps both parties. Because there's I think there's always going to, well, usually there's one spouse who was the Excel person with charts and graphs and color-coding and gets really into it. And I mean, for me checklists. My love language. So I'm all here for it. But I knew that he wasn't going to go for it. So I had to be like, in and out with it and reach a happy medium. 

BIRD: Those are crucial. So I hope anyone listening is taking note. And I know I can actually think of a girlfriend who I'm going to send this episode to who's gonna laugh at that. Cause her husband's always wanting to like, pull up the Excel spreadsheet and talk through meetings. I'm sure his meeting isn't 10 minutes. I'm sure it's like a few hours. 

O.L.: Yeah, I'll just say. The longer you do it, the less time you need to do it. 

SWAY: Yeah. Yeah. 

O.L.: So we've been doing this for years now. So we don't need the time to go there because we, in a micro manner, go there every day.

SWAY: Yeah, absolutely. So we have a place. There will be sometimes I want to say something to him in the middle of the damn night. But then I'll list tomorrow, we'll talk about it. There's a place for it. There's a place.

BIRD: Exactly. That's what it was for us too. And then I also found that involving the spouse who's not as excited about the meetings and Excel spreadsheets into it, and inviting their creativity and their opinions into it. Before I'd be like, Terry, we're gonna meet and we're gonna talk about our budget. It's gonna be awesome. And this is how we're going to save money. And this is where we're going to be in 10 years. And he'd be like, okay. Like, he was over it. But when it was like, how do you think we should use this extra sum of money we have or this check that's coming in? Or what do you think about our investments? That's when he was like, okay, well, this is fun. And now he's the one excited about the meetings. So I was kind of being a day trader. 

SWAY: That was me too, like, yeah, I was like, okay, this is what we're gonna do. We're gonna plan out the whole year, and we're gonna do this, this, this and this. And he's just like, are you serious? 

O.L.: My wife is the one who plans out our vacation.

SWAY: Everything. I plan everything.

O.L.: So on Thursday at three, we've got a snorkeling session appointment. And then we're going to do this as and then. Oh, they have dinner from nine to whenever so. 

SWAY: We gotta eat.

O.L.: So we're going to snack and save room in our tummies until dinner. 

SWAY: You gotta be good and hungry for dinner now.

O.L.: And then we're going to go hang gliding in the morning. 

SWAY: So be ready. 

O.L.: So be ready for that. But we're gonna need some downtime. So we're gonna not do anything for the rest of the day. Because on our last day, here, we're gonna go zip lining. 

BIRD: I love it! 

O.L.: Like, is this a vacation? 

SWAY: He's like, I just want to be still. 

O.L.: Nothing on the schedule and let's just blow in the wind. 

BIRD: Yes. Oh, my gosh. I know so many marriedpreneurs listening to that can totally relate. Because that is marriage to the T. So funny. 

And another thing I'll say really quick about how you're saying you break down your annual goals into quarterly, monthly, weekly, and then talk about it daily is so good. I remember I was doing some research on goals and why people don't meet them. And a lot of times, it's because they just don't even remember them. They don't even recall them. They don't even go back to the goals they set in January. And so if you are constantly, those are top of mind, man, how much more effective are you going to be? You're being held accountable. It's right in front of your face. I love that you do that. 

SWAY: Yeah, we just like to keep the vision very plain and make it super simple. 

O.L.: Keep the vision visible. 

SWAY: Yeah, keep the vision visible. And so we have a digital form of it. And then like actual paper form, and even a whiteboard. So we just keep it on the whiteboard, whatever that is that we're focusing on for the month. And that just goes with the annual. So when we do our dailies, it's right there. We're like, oh, that's right. oh, okay. Thank you for the reminder. It just makes it so much easier to get to those goals, right? And to be very intentional about our time too.

O.L.: It also frees up bandwidth so you don't feel a pressure like you have to remember all these little elements.

BIRD: Yes, that's great. I love it. So if someone's considering going into business with their spouse, is there anything they should consider? Are there any conversations they should have up front whether it's about money or roles? One thing I heard once, I forget who said it. But it was that, you know, you think that you go into business and that you're 50/50, right? We're 50/50 on everything. But this person, I wish I could remember who it was said, we go 51/49 so that we identify different areas in our business where one of us kind of takes the lead. So that when we're in a situation where we don't agree, we already have decided that, okay, Terry heads all of the creative stuff, so that his department. And I can be okay with us choosing his route. Now, me, I'mma make sure he knows why I don't think it's a good idea. And all of that. But I can release it, because it's like that he's the 51 in a sense in that area. And so it really helps when it comes to having to make decisions and move things forward, having done that in advance. So that's just like something I've mentioned before. But are there certain conversations they should have? If they're like really trying to discover if they're even good to go into business together? What would you say there? 

SWAY: Yeah, I think that's a very good question. That's like, so loaded. I have so many responses in my head. But regarding that, quote, that we're not sure who said it.  Definitely agree with that. We have something called wealth roles. And so within the wealth roles, these are very similar to like the, what you're talking about. Who's going to do what? So we say, like, decide on a principal. Like, who is the principal of each of these areas or tasks? So we definitely second that. 

O.L.: So one's the principal. One's the support. 

SWAY: Yes, one's the principal and one is the support. So yeah, you are still working together, but there is a principal. And that also helps when it's time for accountability. Okay, so where are we on such and such? Oh, well I thought you were going to do it. Who's the principal? Like, who? Who does this really go on? Like, whose shoulders does it really fall on?. So, you know, no blame game there. But that's really helped us a great deal. 

As far as like conversations, I think it's important to have clarity. And clarity doesn't mean you have to know the next 20 steps that you need to take. But clarity first on the basics, like, you know, what are you all looking to build? What do you feel like? What do you want it to look like? Right? Like, what is the goal? What is the vision? So whatever, you end up doing, whatever decision or how you if you do a franchise or you start from scratch or consultancy. Whatever it is, that you have clarity on where you're going? And so you can both say, is this where we said we're going right? And so when it starts to drift, and you start to get out of alignment, you're able to quickly, you're able to be aware of that and make decisions to get back in alignment. Because I think, overall, regardless, I mean, the conversation that you will have should be, according to that. Because if you don't have that you will be having conversations about it like but it'll be on the back end. You know, and it's like, "Wait, why are we doing this? I don't want to do it. I thought you said you want...", you know? And it's like, wait, you don't have any, there's no anchor there. What are you doing? You know, so I think that it's going to be one of the first things to really be clear about. It's like, okay, what do we want it to look like? Even if you don't know what to call it, what do you want your days to look like? And that's because our time is so important. I think that's so critical.

O.L.: Yeah, I would just add to that, I think it's important to, because you said, if they decide to do this together. Or how they're going to go about, you know, going into business. I think it's always good for entrepreneurs, but in particular, married entrepreneurs, to meet introspectively. Ask yourself, why am I launching this, pursuing this, going after this? And as to whatever degree you can be, be as honest, whatever extent you can with what your motivation is for doing this in the first place. And the reason why that's important is because when you meet collective, so first is the introspective meeting, the second we have a collective meeting. So when the two of you meet together, you need to be able to communicate, the two of you, what the drive train really is here. What is the real overarching motive here? Now, we could say that that's important so we could be on the same page. And that is absolutely a fact. No doubt about it. But because building a business, building a legacy is such a mountain high, value low experience, when your spouse already knows what the drive train, the motive is for doing this. That gives them something to work with to be the encourager for the inevitable valleys that will come with this. But if they don't know where to sort of pull the wellspring of values and convictions from, then, you know, they can encourage you, but sometimes you need to hear someone say, "Remember, you said that you're going to do this and I said, I was gonna support you." So this could come about whatever that this is, whatever you're trying to do, transformation you want to bring to the market. Sometimes we have to return to those core fundamentals in the midst of complexity of sales and marketing and da da da da and all that stuff that happens.  Be like, okay, why am I doing this again? Because that then becomes the fuel to persevere.

BIRD: Whew! Yes! That is so good and so incredibly important, especially as you talk through the inevitable valleys, right? They're going to come. I know that on social media, you know, and in society, we paint entrepreneurship as so sexy. #boss, you know, I'm out here. All of that is great. But let me tell you something. When you are cleaning toilets, and trying to get the mouse out the... You know, it's real. So it's not all gumdrops and fairies, right? It's hard work. And so you have to know your why. And you're going to need the support from a spouse, from friends, from your community, to make it through those hard times. So that is incredibly important. 

SWAY: Yes, yes. 

BIRD: I Love it. I'm sure those who are listening are loving this conversation. And we could go on forever. I love talking with y'all. But I want to know, how can people work with you or connect with you if they're marriedpreneurs and they're going to want some support as they navigate this journey? 

SWAY: Well, sure.Thanks for asking. Yeah, we have all things Marriedpreneur Life at marriedpreneurlife.com. We have a podcast, Marriedpreneur Life podcast. We have tons of resources and downloads. We even recently just released a overview and a checklist, you know me my checklist, for Marriedpreneur Operating Systems. So we're really excited about that. It's something we've been working on for years and didn't even realize it. It's just a hub for all the different types of systems that we've been implementing over the years. And so it's really an overview and a checklist. So that can be found over at marriedpreneurlife.com, as well. We have some opportunities for strategy calls over at marriedpreneurlife.com too. So yeah, everything is right there at marriagepreneurlife.

BIRD: Awesome. I'll make sure that I link all of that in the show notes so that anyone listening can just scroll right down and click on it to connect with you. 

SWAY: Awesome. Thank you. 

BIRD: Thank you so much for being on the show. Y'all are just incredible, such an inspiration. Like I said, Terry and I have gleaned so much wisdom from you over the years. So thank you for what you're doing. It matters. It's important. And again, thank you so much for being here. 

O.L. and SWAY: Thank you for having us. 

BIRD: I just love those two. Like I said, their content is so onpoint. And Terry and I have learned so much from them over the years. We're always sharing their posts with each other because like I said, it's just so good. So if you identify as a marriedpreneur or plan to be one in the future, make sure you follow them and learn from them. I'll be sure to link all the ways you can connect with O.L. and Sway in the show notes. 

As always, thank you so much for tuning into Bird Means Business podcast, for subscribing on Apple Podcasts and for following us on Spotify. Make sure you tell every marriedpreneur you know about this episode so that they can improve their marriages and businesses too. 

All right. Talk to y'all next week.